Thinking of getting my first fixed blade

[cedartop]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that Tinman, good post.

 

[jbombelli]

Wow, that’s just full of WIN there. This theory of a ranged, equal armament, equal initiative fight is just myth. The decision for a contact distance fight to step off is often time not ours to make. The bad guys are very, very adept at closing distance once they have selected a victim. That ranks right up there with the “Tactical Teds” who spout off “I just don’t let anyone get that close to me.” Oh really? How many times have you been to the grocery store, gas station, local stop and rob, or parking lot and managed to maintain a constant 30 ft bubble in all directions devoid of another person? I’ve tried, just for giggles, unless the place is empty, I could never successfully do it.

It's definitely hard to keep aware of your surroundings at all times, and even harder to keep someone off of you to give you time to draw a weapon (no matter what it is) if they're already that close.

In fight access of any tool isn’t easy, If you think it is I’d encourage you to strap on some trainers, and fist helmets and see how that goes. Even an inexperienced guy can foul a draw at 3 steps an in. I watched a group of 18 experienced guys consistently have MAJOR issues getting weapons into play during a FUT (that stands for Fouled Up Tangle, Thanks to Southnarc for that acronym).

Definitely true.


On the issue of shots going everywhere, if you are properly trained in methods for attached shooting, this is a non-issue. Look up some of Southnarc’s videos on Youtube. You’ll see fight after fight where guys employed handguns and got shots on the attacker while surrounded (360 degrees) by other class members. It can be done, there is a method to it, and it doesn’t involve just randomly triggering rounds. It needs to be trained and practiced just like your ranged shooting techniques.

I won't say it's a complete non-issue, because anything can happen. Adrenaline can do funny things! Also some of us don't have the time to dedicate to practicing all of the things we SHOULD practice, or would like to practice. Time is at a premium, and has to be divided among a lot of things. I've put some practice into drawing and firing from a retention position, but not as much as I would like to have put in to be able to say it's a non-issue. What can I say? Retention issues still make me nervous.



At close range, I’d rather have both. Although I agree that the knife is a devastating asset at contact distance, the wound channel created by a close range gunshot is impressive. Additionally, I don’t want to chase someone to employ the tool. Often times one of the two parties may break range once the fight starts and things aren’t going there way. This does not necessarily mean they are no longer a threat. You may need to re-engage them from a longer range and the transition to pistol is important there.

That's why I carry both. I too would rather not chase.


In fight weapons access (IFWA) has the same issues whether you’re drawing a knife, a gun, or an impact tool. If you fail to adhere to a few rules, you’re draw can be fouled, and the tool may never be a factor in the fight. Again, this must be trained and practiced, it’s not just a “natural instinct”

That's true. However, my statement was in regard to a knife already in my hand, not the bad guy fouling up my draw. It's hard to draw under stress, most definitely.


Not exactly, yes you are a more disadvantaged position, but speed, aggression, and violence of action for your response will play a factor in the final outcome of the fight.

That's true, too. Often, it's your willingness and determination to win that allows you to do so. But if the other guy is as equally determined as you, and really wants that crack money, you're screwed if he gets the drop on you. You never know ahead of time how motivated and determined the other guy might be, so the best thing any of us can do is try to see it coming.

Sorry folks, got on my soap box a bit there.

Soap boxes are fun!

To the OP’s question, Here’s a list of some of the EDC fixed blades I’ve carried:
Shivworks Clinch pick
Shivworks Disciple
CRKT Ryan Plan B
Cold Steel Braveheart
Kasper Companion
Emerson La Griffe
Cold Steel Safe Maker 2 (push dagger)
Ka-Bar Small TDI
Cubby Special Pikal Angry Mariner

All had their pluses and minuses. Some of the better ones were the Clinch pick, the Ryan Plan B, and the Safe Maker.

Here are some general rules of thumb I have developed for selecting an defensive knife.
· Easy to access (as I said, IFWA is the hardest part of the equation, don’t hamper yourself with a knife you can’t get too)
· Securely carried (Kind of at odds with #1, but if the blade isn’t there when I reach for it, it’s not worth much to me)
· Stout (Flesh is soft, bone is not. A broken knife can really suck when you need it most)
· Grippy (One of the most common injuries when you study knife assaults is cuts to the hands of the guy with the knife. After cut one you’re going to be “wet” sliding up on your own blade can be bad news)
· Pointy (I don’t count on cuts or slashes to end a fight, I want something I can poke holes in a threat with)

In keeping with this, I don’t recommend skeletonized handles, they are just too thin and slippery. I would also caution against a large knife. Much like a full sized handgun, they bring with them a series of carry issues that may lead you to leave it at home. I also don’t like neck knives, they move around too much to be consistently accessed when I need them.

Sorry, long post, guess I got rollin!

Tinman….

Good post. Rep'd.

 

[Tinman]

Great discussion! sorry if this is a bit of a thread drift.

I won't say it's a complete non-issue, because anything can happen. Adrenaline can do funny things! Also some of us don't have the time to dedicate to practicing all of the things we SHOULD practice, or would like to practice. Time is at a premium, and has to be divided among a lot of things. I've put some practice into drawing and firing from a retention position, but not as much as I would like to have put in to be able to say it's a non-issue. What can I say? Retention issues still make me nervous.

The question we have to ask ourselves at this point is are we properly prioritizing our training time and dollars?

I've come to the conclusion, at least in my training, that I'm more likely to need those skill sets in a close proximity encounter than a 15 yard plus engagement. It's not to say that I neglect my training in that area, I just spend more time in the close proximity shooting.

The other nice thing about proximity shooting is that we can practice it dry, and with airsoft and save the training dollars at least.

Thanks for the rep guys, I'm glad you all got something out of my thoughts.

Tinman....

 

[jdhaines]

After going through an ECQC class where we worked this problem from a standpoint of no-rules, unscripted, unarmed (initially hands empty), unknown person situations it became very clear that a gun is not always the answer. Keeping people away is almost never the answer. Someone saying "I'll just shoot them" hasn't tried this under real circumstances (not to mention the fact that you can't legally shoot someone for getting close to you) and a few other truths that I wouldn't have believed had I not experienced it. There is no "close range gunfighting" where you are likely to come away with a real "win." If you are both in close with guns, shooting it out then things have gone terribly wrong. You have to train on how to hinder them from weapons access and bolster your ability to access appropriate weapons when inside or near touching distance.

I'm still working on my shooting (in fact, should have a class in a couple weeks almost specifically on shooting), but I'm also seeking BJJ instruction, stand-up instruction, and re-vamping my workout style to support this combatives approach.