THIS actually makes me proud to be an American...!

[Kirk Freeman]

How about we just repeal the senseless law that Shotgun Joe passed in the first place and let the schools deal with their own security.

Government, stop doing things.

 

[Woobie]

"WHY WASN'T THE VOLUNTEER GUARD THERE ON FRIDAY, WHEN THE SHOOTING HAPPENED?!"

Can't win. Has to be guaranteed attendance, I think.

Ideally, it would be guaranteed. But if it can't be 100% coverage, there's still value in some. Besides, examine your hypothetical argument. What is the logical admission there? If someone were to come out and say that, it would be political gold.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Ideally, it would be guaranteed. But if it can't be 100% coverage, there's still value in some. Besides, examine your hypothetical argument. What is the logical admission there? If someone were to come out and say that, it would be political gold.

Heh, yeah... but post-shooting screeching rarely features logic.

I think "they" know that an armed presence is absolutely a good thing, if they truly want to protect schools. But of course, the first thing they want to target is the guns themselves. Opportunists, tragedies, etc.

 

[T.Lex]

How about we just repeal the senseless law that Shotgun Joe passed in the first place and let the schools deal with their own security.

Government, stop doing things.

^^^ This.

This is a local problem, deserving of local solutions.

 

[Thor]

How about we just repeal the senseless law that Shotgun Joe passed in the first place and let the schools deal with their own security.

Government, stop doing things.

+10

When I was in HS teachers carried. The school had riots, no one came in those doors...no one left. The miscreants knew who not to fool with.

 

[Woobie]

How about we just repeal the senseless law that Shotgun Joe passed in the first place and let the schools deal with their own security.

Government, stop doing things.

Freeman/Pence 2020

 

[Woobie]

Heh, yeah... but post-shooting screeching rarely features logic.

I think "they" know that an armed presence is absolutely a good thing, if they truly want to protect schools. But of course, the first thing they want to target is the guns themselves. Opportunists, tragedies, etc.

I agree, but I think there is a battle that can be won. I don't care what Blitzer or Donelly think. They're lost. But Lori the soccer mom might be winnable.

And I'm just spitballing here. My posts are all philosophical, there are a lot of people on our side, and on INGO that are much better qualified and capable of a winning strategy on the political arena.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I agree, but I think there is a battle that can be won. I don't care what Blitzer or Donelly think. They're lost. But Lori the soccer mom might be winnable.

And I'm just spitballing here. My posts are all philosophical, there are a lot of people on our side, and on INGO that are much better qualified and capable of a winning strategy on the political arena.

There should be only one winning strategy. "I should not be penalized for the criminal actions of others." Everything else is just fluff, and weakens our argument. Don't compare us to other places and other laws. Free people who abide by the law, and don't molest anyone else, should be free to have, keep, and use whatever they want.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

We are stuck in a loop.

A school shooting occurs. Our delighted news establishment lavishly rewards the shooter by giving him the notoriety and immortality he craves, with the full knowledge that they are encouraging the NEXT deranged shooter. They wait with eager anticipation for the next inevitable tragedy so they can repeat the cycle. These madmen have learned that killing innocent kids works,​ and they're going to keep doing it.

People, especially parents, are terrified and frustrated and are willing to grasp at solutions that we know can't possibly work. The key to ending these crimes is in breaking this cycle. I am totally convinced that the only thing that can do this now is to create the idea in the minds of these monsters that if they attack a school they will have no reasonable chance of success, and the only thing that will do THAT is a certainty of meeting immediate armed resistance.

I know full well that implementation of something like this will be a train wreck. Kut made excellent points about this, but none of them are insurmountable. I'm also seeing a much higher level of advocacy for it in online discussions than I've ever seen before. Some people are starting to see that a plan that seems to always end with kids cowering in a classroom awaiting their turn to die isn't a plan.

 

[Woobie]

There should be only one winning strategy. "I should not be penalized for the criminal actions of others." Everything else is just fluff, and weakens our argument. Don't compare us to other places and other laws. Free people who abide by the law, and don't molest anyone else, should be free to have, keep, and use whatever they want.

I think that is the desired end state. But most Americans aren't there. They often see violations of individual liberty as necessary or reasonable. How many people think Carmel shouldn't let Muslims build a house of worship? That attitude is everywhere you turn. People don't mind you messing with other people's rights. So I think a nuanced approach is required to get them to realize an attack on anyone's liberty is an attack on everyone's.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

We are stuck in a loop.

It'll never end. It absolutely is a tragedy, but with freedom comes risk. Unfortunately, because we have such freedom, we are all able to commit atrocities.

Our delighted news establishment lavishly rewards the shooter by giving him the notoriety and immortality he craves, with the full knowledge that they are encouraging the NEXT deranged shooter. They wait with eager anticipation for the next inevitable tragedy so they can repeat the cycle. These madmen have learned that killing innocent kids works,​ and they're going to keep doing it.

This, too, will never end. DailyWire announced they'll no longer show names/pics of shooters. That's cute.... but it means nothing. The mainstream outlets will always publish names/photos. They have to. It's important that they highlight who it is so people can dig into them and find out which team they're on, and use it as ammo against ideological opponents. We will always see names and photos of killers. Pretending society will just come together and stop doing it is a fantasy.

People, especially parents, are terrified and frustrated and are willing to grasp at solutions that we know can't possibly work. The key to ending these crimes is in breaking this cycle. I am totally convinced that the only thing that can do this now is to create the idea in the minds of these monsters that if they attack a school they will have no reasonable chance of success, and the only thing that will do THAT is a certainty of meeting immediate armed resistance.

Ideally, we can try to lessen the carnage someone can unleash before they're stopped. We'll never be able to prevent shootings... and that's something we probably all understand, as heartless as it sounds. It'd be great to dig down into why people do it, and maybe address that... but that's not a conversation either side seems to want to have.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Among arming the teachers, secretaries and other staff, arming the custodians and maintenance crew is just as or more important...

I'd agree with arming both teachers and various support staff, but that's a pretty solid argument you laid out for maintenance.

I say use retired police officers and veterans

Whoever we use has to be properly trained for active shooter scenarios, use of force laws, etc. Not everyone's job in law enforcement or the military matches up to the necessary skill set, but most will have a good foundation at the very least.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It's really difficult for me to imagine veterans spending hours at schools doing pretty much nothing day in and day out. That would old very quickly.

That's a lot of the military in a nutshell, to be honest. Sitting/standing/flying/driving and waiting for the next thing to happen. Having some sort of QRF in a CCTV room at a school wouldn't be any different than any other QRF. Lots of sitting, waiting, and the ever popular "hurry up and wait"...something vets are well acquainted with and have learned to deal with.

 

[Woobie]

That's a lot of the military in a nutshell, to be honest. Sitting/standing/flying/driving and waiting for the next thing to happen. Having some sort of QRF in a CCTV room at a school wouldn't be any different than any other QRF. Lots of sitting, waiting, and the ever popular "hurry up and wait"...something vets are well acquainted with and have learned to deal with.

I'm not Airborne qualified, full disclosure.

But anyone who has jump wings is fully qualified to sit around for hours in complete misery.

 

[Mark 1911]

And lock some damn doors.

This part should be automatic these days. So simple. Even locking the glass doors would help in some cases at least, although locked glass doors didn't help at Sandy Hook. Steel security doors would be great, the schools that can afford them should install them.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

This part should be automatic these days. So simple. Even locking the glass doors would help in some cases at least, although locked glass doors didn't help at Sandy Hook. Steel security doors would be great, the schools that can afford them should install them.

Each state should pay for this, I'd be all for it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Let's say a teacher ends a threat, and cuts down the deaths from say 10 to 5...or even 2. What does that do for us? Are people going to say "Well, arming teachers worked. The shooter only killed 2 people instead of 20?" Of course not, we're going to be in the exact place that we are now. The parents of the victims, aren't going to be thinking "well, it could've been worse." Other parents aren't going to be happy either... It changes nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If the Florida death toll went from 17 to 2, I can think of 15 sets of parents/families that would be quite a bit more relieved.

 

[ddenny5]

You are selling teachers short. Many of them have served in our military. They are smart and many are willing. Security is done in layers. Arming teachers is just one layer. You will still need armed resource officers. It does not need to be a teacher. It can be a staff member. The idea is sound.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

WTHR just had a little "teaser" about an upcoming segment saying, "Some teachers are saying that concealed carry is not in their job description." Well no **** Sherlock. No one has suggested that all teachers must be armed. It's only been suggested that those that are willing should be able to. How do people make it through the education required to become a teacher without a basic grasp of reading/listening comprehension? That's frightening in and of itself.

 

[Woobie]

You are selling teachers short. Many of them have served in our military. They are smart and many are willing. Security is done in layers. Arming teachers is just one layer. You will still need armed resource officers. It does not need to be a teacher. It can be a staff member. The idea is sound.

I have a friend who is a teacher not too far from where I live. He's a retired officer off active duty. He spent several of his years in SF, including some time in a Tier 2 unit. His freakin dogs are named Ranger and Darby. Pretty sure he'd be gtg.