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This Article should be gospel for education reformers!
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steveh_131
Grandmaster
I had a gruff teacher like that. I liked him. He made students cry, but they still liked him.
They didn't like him because he was gruff. He wasn't a good teacher because he was gruff. He was a good teacher because he cared.
I doubt that we would see much improvement by taking a bunch of unionized, apathetic government employees and telling them to be more mean to kids. Just my two cents.
They didn't like him because he was gruff. He wasn't a good teacher because he was gruff. He was a good teacher because he cared.
I doubt that we would see much improvement by taking a bunch of unionized, apathetic government employees and telling them to be more mean to kids. Just my two cents.
To ^^that^^ I would add that it (the article) succumbs to the very fallacy of education that the government schools do, namely, that learning methodologies can be pigeon-holed based on a statistic or a standardized test score.
The "secret" to successful educational results is no secret at all.
The "secret" to successful educational results is no secret at all.
badwolf.usmc
Sharpshooter
It is funny how he glosses over a simple fact when comparing US education to these other countries.
Their education programs are federally managed and funded.
Their education programs are federally managed and funded.
Well, that is largely true, but if your argument is that being federally managed and funded is related to the results, I'm going to have to disagree with you inasmuch as we would have the same dismal results we currently have even if tomorrow the feds took over U.S. education.
What's funny, is that for those that have served in the military, the drill instructors that we had, use this very technique to train recruits. They are hard, but fair. They break individuals down and teach them to work as a team. They teach that a unit is only as strong as its weakest link, and to learn from your mistakes. I can guarantee that those of us who made a mistake, paid pretty dearly for it, and NEVER did it again. They taught you to take pride in your work, and to never stop bettering yourself. They taught you that perseverance and tenacity were the corner stones to never fearing defeat. They taught you that you may get your butt whooped in a fight, but the other side was going to know that they had been in a fight. In competitions, there were winners, and there were losers. There was never a time where a score wasn't kept, and that you could have the losing score.
Most of us hated those instructors at first, mainly because we weren't used to being treated that way. But after time passed, you realized why they were using this teaching method, and why it was so successful. Maybe its time we train our teachers to be like these instructors, and let them teach our students to never accept defeat and to work hard and fight for every inch of what life gives us.
Most of us hated those instructors at first, mainly because we weren't used to being treated that way. But after time passed, you realized why they were using this teaching method, and why it was so successful. Maybe its time we train our teachers to be like these instructors, and let them teach our students to never accept defeat and to work hard and fight for every inch of what life gives us.
badwolf.usmc
Sharpshooter
My argument is that it is not an apples to apples comparison.
while you may be true that the federal government may not be able to run it better, it can't be run worse than the petty lord/fiefdom system eye have now. Most of the poor results have to do with poor parenting.
I'm not really sure why you made the comparison then. There was a point in time when the U.S. cleaned the clock of most other countries in terms of education results and we did it under the framework we have now. Clearly, control and funding is not relevant.
badwolf.usmc
Sharpshooter
I did not make the comparison. I just commented on theirs.
Why U.S. can?t get back to head of the class (because it was never there) - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post
I would like to see the historical data that says we ranked #1 in education. I'm not saying it does not exist, but I have not found it yet.
To what purpose? That is what I'm trying to figure out. Why bring up the difference in funding/management if it is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand? If it doesn't influence the results, why introduce it into the discussion? It's like discussing the ballistics of .223 vs .306 and then mentioning that the .223 is made in the U.S.A.
I didn't say we ranked #1 in education. But we were competitive and more highly ranked than we are today. Your linked article is interesting, but falls way short of proving the claim. Sample sizes are too small, it ranks the U.S. by subject only (which has value, but it not sufficient on its own to make a generalized statement about the U.S's world ranking in education), it completely ignores the reading/literacy aspect, which is one of the areas where the U.S. generally ranks higher, and we have no way of knowing how the U.S. ranked on "every" international assessment since the author doesn't give us the sources for those or breaking down the U.S. ranking for all of them. He doesn't even tell us how many there were! From a scientific standpoint, the conclusions drawn from the methodology the author uses are anecdotal at best. Not invalid, not without use, but not statistically significant either. I'm not disputing the data in the article. Under those limited criteria, the U.S. does rank poorly. But at no time have we ever been "near the bottom" or dead last in world rankings.
And right there, you lost me. The military has a unique mindset and a unique goal when training people, which is different from civilian life. Companies don't always need someone conditioned to work as a team: sometimes they need an individual to rise and shine. An entrepreneur has to be able to do the same on a daily basis. I'm not saying that the military is bad: on the contrary they do an excellent job in using psychology to train soldiers! But the social and mental needs of the military are not the same as those in civilian life, and it would be a mistake to apply those lessons directly from one to the other. Particularly to children.
Once schools lost the right to tell parents to STFU and let the teachers actually do their jobs we went downhill. EVERYBODY is an expert at teaching, they all know all the answers at all times on how to do a teacher's job.
I'd put anybody in my wife's teaching job and they would quit after a day MAX. Most would be crying at lunchtime. My wife's a middle school special ed teacher.
I'd put anybody in my wife's teaching job and they would quit after a day MAX. Most would be crying at lunchtime. My wife's a middle school special ed teacher.
Our schools were best when government was involved the least. Another article in the spirit of the thread:
Let's call our public schools what they really are -- ?government? schools | Fox News
Although private schools support the point, perhaps the best contemporary proof of this comes from homeschoolers who do about 30% better than their gov' schooled conterparts on standarized tests; all with SIGNIFICANTLY fewer resources and a "lack" of "professional" teachers.
Let's call our public schools what they really are -- ?government? schools | Fox News
Although private schools support the point, perhaps the best contemporary proof of this comes from homeschoolers who do about 30% better than their gov' schooled conterparts on standarized tests; all with SIGNIFICANTLY fewer resources and a "lack" of "professional" teachers.
Yeah, well no kidding. Any student given 1 to 1 attention will do better than somebody who has 34 other kids in their class. That's not difficult to figure out.
It's a lot more than simply student/teacher ratios. Many private schools have ratios similar to public schools and yet achieve results similar to home educators. You're right that discipline is a huge part. That foundation has been removed (or significantly limited) in the public schools making educational progress more difficult.
So, why prop up the least efficient model? Choice and the market improve education. Monopolies and special interests drag it down. Think of the children!
There are a lot of good people trying to do a good job teaching in the public system, but the structure and realities of that system make it more difficult for them than it should be.
So, why prop up the least efficient model? Choice and the market improve education. Monopolies and special interests drag it down. Think of the children!
There are a lot of good people trying to do a good job teaching in the public system, but the structure and realities of that system make it more difficult for them than it should be.
I was trying to convey how the military uses teamwork to teach things that are lost in schools now....like the winner/loser concept. It used to be that there always was a winner and a loser, how else would you know where to work on shortfalls. Corporations do need individuals, but from my experience, sometimes it's working as a team, that makes the individual's realize that unless they do strive for more. I would think that a good corporation would want people who can not only work as part of a team, but to also rise above his/her peers, and be that individual that drives success.
As far as the social and mental mindsets being an issue, I think it would be a good thing to teach kids how to handle stress in a positive way instead of how it's done now. I study recently done (I forget the source) stated that military children tend to handle stress better, and lean on the family unit to get through tough times. I like the old adage...."that which does kill us, only makes you stronger"
They already do, and it works like this:
A head count is taken at the start of the school year so the educrats can feed on our money like little piggies at the trough.
Then, right before the government mandated standardized test, they create a pool of all the kids they failed to teach the test too.
Some of these “underperforming” kids our insipid educrats were too stupid to teach are selected to be tossed out. But why not all? Well the greedy little educrat piggies figured out they could remove just enough kids to show the minimum test performance increase to receive the maximum funding increase. This way the educrat piggies get to feed again.
How do I know? Because, I sat in a meeting with Tony Bennett discussing ways to solve this very problem.
Exactly LESS parental involvement is the key to better outcomes.......you sure that's what you meant?
...oh and sometimes I wish my clients would shut up and just let me do what I think is best for them....but for some reason they want to have a say. How very unreasonable of them.
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