This is a new one for me: John Browning posed with his finger on the trigger

[evsnova74]

How frequent are these arguments you're having?

Not very. This just caught me off guard that someone would actually try to argue in favor of putting your finger on the trigger as a regular practice.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

...the back page of Guns and Ammo magazine always has some legend holding some classic firearm...often with booger hooks on bang switches

You can find photos of Jeff Cooper at the Big Bear matches doing the same in his own biography.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Jeff Cooper at Big Bear (second from right, Jack Weaver of the Weaver stance on extreme right):

Cooper with his fellow USMC officers of the USS Pennsylvania (Cooper on left):

 

[nailknocker]

Had a friend who was a retired ISP trooper from the revolver era. He claimed that they were not taught to carry in the straight finger style until the advent of striker fired handguns. Makes sense to me. Can anyone else confirm?

 

[halfmileharry]

Photoshop. JMB wouldn't do that. I see two things in that picture that don't fit the time lines.
JMB NEVER did anything wrong.

 

[seagullplayer]

Probably some sort of training photo on how his new trigger worked...

Showboat.

 

[Drail]

But wait, there's more.... John Browning's personal 1911 had no thumb safety, he carried it holstered on half cock and thumbed it to full cock upon the draw (probably with his finger on the trigger). When he was finished shooting he then lowered the hammer back to half cock with his thumb. True fact. Consider for a moment what type of handgun that he and everyone else at that time had learned to shoot with. A single action revolver. Why would they treat a single action semi auto any differently?

 

[AmmoManAaron]

But wait, there's more.... John Browning's personal 1911 had no thumb safety, he carried it holstered on half cock and thumbed it to full cock upon the draw (probably with his finger on the trigger). When he was finished shooting he then lowered the hammer back to half cock with his thumb. True fact. Consider for a moment what type of handgun that he and everyone else at that time had learned to shoot with. A single action revolver. Why would they treat a single action semi auto any differently?

Interesting; I did not know that about JMB. Apparently I'm more of a JMB fan than I realized since I carry my 1911 in a similar fashion. Round in the chamber, thumb safety off, hammer at half cock. I don't draw with my finger on the trigger though.

 

[cedartop]

Does this mean people are capable of putting their finger on the trigger and not actually firing a shot?

 

[Tactically Fat]

Interesting; I did not know that about JMB. Apparently I'm more of a JMB fan than I realized since I carry my 1911 in a similar fashion. Round in the chamber, thumb safety off, hammer at half cock. I don't draw with my finger on the trigger though.

What happens if your thumb slips off?

 

[cooltools]

I used to enjoy riding on the side of the bed in the pick up... amazing what some of us lived through...

Yep simply amazing, we even survived riding a bicycle without a helmet back in the day !

 

[Tactically Fat]

Yep simply amazing, we even survived riding a bicycle without a helmet back in the day !

Well...all those that didn't survive aren't able to post...

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Does this mean people are capable of putting their finger on the trigger and not actually firing a shot?

Why do you think Rule #3 would preclude such a happening?

 

[AmmoManAaron]

What happens if your thumb slips off?

You mean while in the process cocking it? Nothing. It just drops back to half cock as long as your finger is NOT on the trigger (obey the four rules!). The only "danger" from a thumb slipping is when decocking with a round in the chamber since you have to pull the trigger while lowering the hammer - of course, if you are following the four rules nothing terrible will happen even if your thumb does slip (you'll inadvertently fire a round at something that you were, or should have been, willing to shoot. It's literally no different than handling a single action revolver and decocking it). Remember - once the trigger is pulled and you are starting the let the hammer down, if you let off of the trigger and let the hammer continue downward it will stop at half cock. To lower to fully hammer down, keep your finger on the trigger while lowering until the hammer is all the way down. It is much simpler to do than type. The action is literally identical to a single action revolver - nothing unusual. It just reloads and recocks itself automatically if you fire a round


Edited to add: If the trigger is pulled while carrying with the hammer at half cock and safety off, NOTHING happens. Mechanically, the hammer cannot fall from half cock even if the trigger is pulled. It can only fall from the fully cocked position (trigger must be pulled AND grip safety depressed at the same time). Thus, I find that carrying in this way is probably safer and just as quick as carrying in condition 1 (hammer fully cocked, thumb safety on). What I'm trying to say is this: I think it less likely that the hammer would get accidentally fully cocked than the safety getting bumped off. As for speed in a self defense situation: I think the speed of use is equal - use thumb to take safety off during draw or use thumb to bring hammer to full cock during draw. In either case the finger must remain off the trigger during the draw if we are being safe.

For a 1911a1 to inadvertently discharge while being carried in either fashion, three mechanical actions must happen:

Condition 1: safety gets bumped off, grip safety depressed, trigger gets snagged and pulled
Half cock carry (JMB carry?): hammer brought to full cock, grip safety depressed, trigger gets snagged and pulled

Mechanically, I think 1911a1 pistols are very safe to carry. Contrast this with something like carrying a Glock. Only one mechanical thing has to happen to get them to fire: trigger gets snagged and pulled.

 

[jsharmon7]

Marie Curie didn't wear protective gear when she did her experiments with radioactivity. She was no dummy either, so I'm not sure why scientists waste time and money on that silly suit.

 

[Double T]

Not very. This just caught me off guard that someone would actually try to argue in favor of putting your finger on the trigger as a regular practice.

I don't know about you, but I have to put my finger on the trigger to get the striker to come forward, or for the hammer to come forward...something about disengaging a sear.

So yeah, my finger is on triggers quite frequently with loaded guns, but I also unload them regularly as well

 

[halfmileharry]

Marie Curie didn't wear protective gear when she did her experiments with radioactivity. She was no dummy either, so I'm not sure why scientists waste time and money on that silly suit.

She lives 3 houses down the road from me and she drinks heavily. She's got a Nose like Rudolph too.

 

[Tactically Fat]

You mean while in the process cocking it? Nothing. It just drops back to half cock as long as your finger is NOT on the trigger (obey the four rules!). The only "danger" from a thumb slipping is when decocking with a round in the chamber since you have to pull the trigger while lowering the hammer - of course, if you are following the four rules nothing terrible will happen even if your thumb does slip (you'll inadvertently fire a round at something that you were, or should have been, willing to shoot. It's literally no different than handling a single action revolver and decocking it). Remember - once the trigger is pulled and you are starting the let the hammer down, if you let off of the trigger and let the hammer continue downward it will stop at half cock. To lower to fully hammer down, keep your finger on the trigger while lowering until the hammer is all the way down. It is much simpler to do than type. The action is literally identical to a single action revolver - nothing unusual. It just reloads and recocks itself automatically if you fire a round


Edited to add: If the trigger is pulled while carrying with the hammer at half cock and safety off, NOTHING happens. Mechanically, the hammer cannot fall from half cock even if the trigger is pulled. It can only fall from the fully cocked position (trigger must be pulled AND grip safety depressed at the same time). Thus, I find that carrying in this way is probably safer and just as quick as carrying in condition 1 (hammer fully cocked, thumb safety on). What I'm trying to say is this: I think it less likely that the hammer would get accidentally fully cocked than the safety getting bumped off. As for speed in a self defense situation: I think the speed of use is equal - use thumb to take safety off during draw or use thumb to bring hammer to full cock during draw. In either case the finger must remain off the trigger during the draw if we are being safe.

For a 1911a1 to inadvertently discharge while being carried in either fashion, three mechanical actions must happen:

Condition 1: safety gets bumped off, grip safety depressed, trigger gets snagged and pulled
Half cock carry (JMB carry?): hammer brought to full cock, grip safety depressed, trigger gets snagged and pulled

Mechanically, I think 1911a1 pistols are very safe to carry. Contrast this with something like carrying a Glock. Only one mechanical thing has to happen to get them to fire: trigger gets snagged and pulled.

have you ever had any formal handgun training? Utilizing the technique that you carry in/with?

 

[HoughMade]

Marie Curie didn't wear protective gear when she did her experiments with radioactivity. She was no dummy either, so I'm not sure why scientists waste time and money on that silly suit.

My Dad is one of the most intelligent and certainly the wisest man I know....but he also bought a Ford Maverick once.

Humans gonna human.

 

[femurphy77]

Perhaps he told the photographer; "If you tell me "Just one more picture Mr Browning", I'm gonna shoot you"!