This isn't going to help us... 3 Dead, 5 Wounded In St. Louis Plant Shooting

[CoyoteCreekGuns]

At Least 3 Dead, 5 Wounded In St. Louis Shooting - Indiana News Story - WRTV Indianapolis

ST. LOUIS -- Authorities now say three people are dead and five are wounded after a man armed with an assault rifle and a handgun opened fire at a St. Louis manufacturing plant. Police Capt. Sam Dotson confirmed the number but did not have names. Authorities haven't confirmed whether one of the eight was the gunman. The shooting began around 6:30 a.m. Thursday at Swiss-based ABB Group's plant in St. Louis. Police are going room by room inside the sprawling plant, searching for the shooter and additional victims.

Many of the 40 or 50 employees inside the plant at the time of the shooting hid on the rooftop, in boiler rooms and in closets. Authorities say three of the wounded are in critical condition and two are in fair condition. THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below. ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Authorities now say three people are dead and four are wounded after a man armed with an assault rifle and a handgun opened fire at a St. Louis manufacturing plant. Police Capt. Sam Dotson confirmed the number but did not have names or details about the victims. The shooting began around 6:30 a.m. Thursday at Swiss-based ABB Group's plant in St. Louis. Police are going room by room inside the sprawling plant, searching for the shooter and additional victims. Many of the 40 or 50 employees inside the plant at the time of the shooting hid on the rooftop, in boiler rooms and in closets. Fire Department spokesman Bob Keuss says at least two of the victims were in critical condition.

 

[UltraRick]

SAD. Another case that could have been stopped by an armed employee. Side note hiding on the roof in January cold and snow with no place to go if he came up-not a good idea.

 

[Joe Williams]

Actually, it's just another example of how victim disarmament zones are reckless, dangerous, and negligent. While I support the right of employers to deny their employees the ability to properly defend themselves on company property, it's high time we start calling for such companies to be held responsible for their willful negligence. Time and again we've seen these victim disarmament zones become slaughterhouses, it's a simple fact that these active shooters choose their targets because they know full well they can enact whatever revenge fantasy they have without being stopped. If employees are allowed to defend themselves, we will see fewer instances of such whack jobs thinking they can get themselves in the headlines without interference. Those who press ahead with their plans will simply become page 2 news, if that, because the media simply won't make big headlines out of a would be mass shooter being gunned down by an armed citizen. We've seen that time and again, also.

Companies have the right to decide what happens on their property, but it's time they stop getting a free pass for their recklessness, the danger they knowingly put their employees in when they force them to disarm and become helpless victims.

 

[jwglock]

This isn't going to help us...

Actually, if people would think rationally it would.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

Getting out some facts:

THIS IS THE "BAD" NEWS:
(for carrying concealed at work; is it a 'place open to the public'?)

Must Post Sign in Conspicuous Place
Letters Must no less than 1"
Must Have 1 or more signs
Sign Must state
"Carry of Concealed Weapons is
Prohibited in a Place Open to the Public"
[[[NO person, NO corporation, NO school,
NO church, NO company, NO individual,
NOR ANY group of individuals
has the right to deprive any citizen of any
of their Constitutional rights. ]]]
[[The Rest Of The Story]]
(Cape Girardeau County only)
To obtain a concealed weapon permit ("CCW")
application, you must have the following:
("Permit" is constantly used, where the
operative word should be "license"; our
"PERMIT" is the 2d amendment !!)
A certificate showing a minimum of 8 hours of
required personal firearms safety training.


A valid Missouri driver license showing that
you are a resident of Cape Girardeau County.


The fee for a CCW permit is now $79.00


Payment can be in the form of cash, a check,
or a money order for the exact amount of $79.00
payable to the Cape Girardeau Sheriff's Office.

When completing your application for a CCW permit
you will be required to submit to one photograph
and fingerprinting. The application must be completed
by the individual obtaining the permit. Fingerprints
will be submitted to the Missouri State Highway Patrol
for a criminal records check. Applicants will be notified
by phone within 45 days regarding approval of their permit.
Please allow the full 45 day period to expire before
contacting us. Upon notification, applicants may pick
up their signed permit at our office.

When picking up your permit, you will be given a blue
slip of paper that you are required to take to the local
license bureau within 7 days. The blue slip of paper will
serve as your temporary permit until you arrive at the
license bureau. Once processed at the license bureau an
endorsement will be added your driver license and you
will only need to present your license to show that your (sic)
are CCW qualified. Persons who do not submit their slip to the
license bureau within 7 days will have their permits voided.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Actually, it's just another example of how victim disarmament zones are reckless, dangerous, and negligent. While I support the right of employers to deny their employees the ability to properly defend themselves on company property, it's high time we start calling for such companies to be held responsible for their willful negligence. Time and again we've seen these victim disarmament zones become slaughterhouses, it's a simple fact that these active shooters choose their targets because they know full well they can enact whatever revenge fantasy they have without being stopped. If employees are allowed to defend themselves, we will see fewer instances of such whack jobs thinking they can get themselves in the headlines without interference. Those who press ahead with their plans will simply become page 2 news, if that, because the media simply won't make big headlines out of a would be mass shooter being gunned down by an armed citizen. We've seen that time and again, also.

Companies have the right to decide what happens on their property, but it's time they stop getting a free pass for their recklessness, the danger they knowingly put their employees in when they force them to disarm and become helpless victims.

Exactly right. If enough companies get sued into nonexistence when something like this happens, maybe they will learn. I am held accountable for the use or misuse of my firearm. Then they should be held equally accountable if they deny my right to use said firearm to protect myself.

Tried to rep you for this, but the rep fairy must be snowed in today.

 

[tnek]

On a side thought. I feel like most people who see this on the news realize its isolated incidents and hold the shooter, not the gun, responsible.

 

[ATM]

Neighbors: Suspect in Mo. shooting unhappy at work - Yahoo! News

...51-year-old Timothy Hendron of Webster Groves, a St. Louis suburb, was unhappy at work, according to those who knew him even casually, and embroiled in a pension dispute with his company that was being litigated this week in U.S. District Court in Kansas City.

Police said the gunman showed up at ABB Group's plant in north St. Louis around 6:30 a.m. Thursday and opened fire, killing three people and wounding five before apparently killing himself.

He was found dead inside the plant from an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound.

"We're very confident that this is the shooter," Police Chief Dan Isom said at a late-afternoon news conference Thursday.

 

[360]

This isn't going to be good for Toll Booths.

Trucker loses head at Toll Booth

 

[pinshooter45]

They are Probably Protected

Exactly right. If enough companies get sued into nonexistence when something like this happens, maybe they will learn. I am held accountable for the use or misuse of my firearm. Then they should be held equally accountable if they deny my right to use said firearm to protect myself.

Tried to rep you for this, but the rep fairy must be snowed in today.

Don't Know For Shure But I'll Bet In Most States Companies are Protected from such lawsuits. Maybe I'll Search Indiana code and find out if that's true here. Never Heard of a company being sued for such an incident. Maybe one of our LEOs or lawyers here can enlighten us.

 

[kludge]

This isn't going to help us...

Actually, if people would think rationally it would.

If A then B.

Scenario #1:

If a disgruntled former employee brings a gun to the workplace and shoots people, we must ban guns in the workplace in order for the workers to be secure.

Equivalent logic Scenario #2:

If a disgruntled former LEO brings a gun to the Police Station and shoots people, we must ban guns in Police Stations in order for the Police Officers to be secure.


Point: We need to become better at reframing the question.

 

[thompal]

If A then B.

Scenario #1:

If a disgruntled former employee brings a gun to the workplace and shoots people, we must ban guns in the workplace in order for the workers to be secure.

How about:

If former employees insist on showing up and shooting people, then we should ban former employees.

If current employees insist on being defenseless targets, then we should ban current employees.

 

[Joe Williams]

If A then B.

snip

Equivalent logic Scenario #2:

If a disgruntled former LEO brings a gun to the Police Station and shoots people, we must ban guns in Police Stations in order for the Police Officers to be secure.


Point: We need to become better at reframing the question.

Had something similar to that happen, once. Actually twice, though the first one didn't involve a cop.

An F15 pilot had let his buddy babysit his son. Neighbor caught the buddy molesting the boy. We had the buddy in our holding cell at the LED when in walks Daddy, .45 in hand, looking to set things right. Thankfully, he was so focused on one thing that he didn't pay any attention to the flight sgt that tackled him before we had to shoot him.

Another incident did involve one of our SPs who was being discharged. She was a tad unhappy about this apparently, went up on the roof of the barracks one night and started shooting at some of us (none of us, incidentally, were involved in her situation, reckon we were just handy) who were hanging out on the balconies outside our rooms. Thankfully, she was shooting a little .25, and couldn't hit any of us. We set up a cordon around her and kept her on the roof until folks who actually had guns could come along. See, for safeties sake, we weren't allowed to have private weapons in the dorms, so all of our guns were locked up in the armory. This meant the only person with a gun at the time was the bad girl. For safety's sake, of course.

 

[Bronsonbull]

Yep it was on the national news last night. Diane Sawyer did a story on this and then Gilbert Arenas' dumbass back to back.

 

[kludge]

until folks who actually had guns could come along. See, for safeties sake, we weren't allowed to have private weapons in the dorms, so all of our guns were locked up in the armory. This meant the only person with a gun at the time was the bad girl. For safety's sake, of course.

Just like Ft. Hood.