This will hurt your head (FFL transfer issue)

[semiauto]

Hello everyone, this is my first post. I jsut wish it could be under better circumstances.

First let me give you the backstory. We are dealing with an out-of-state FFL transfer. I live in IL during the summer, and in IN during the school year (I attend a university in IN). Now, the firearm (a handgun) arrives at my dealer and I go to pick it up. However, during registration and NICS check the process stops, and I cannot take my firearm home. The problem? I put IL as my state of residence (d'oh! It can't say that, the process ends). My permament residence is in IL, this is true. But here is my question:

According to ATF rule 80-21, dealing specifically with students who attend out of state schools, I am a resident of IN during the school year. So why can't I buy the gun? My dealer has suggested that I FFL transfer to a dealer in IL and drive to get it. However, this will be a costly mistake if I have to do that, so I am trying to avoid it.

Long story short: Should I have put IN as my state of residence on the form? Who can I contact to tell me for sure? Is it too late for me to get the gun from my dealer?

Thanks,

A Legitimately Confused Soon-to-be Firearm Owner

 

[CarmelHP]

Yes, if you're taking possession in Indiana. Put whatever state you are a resident of as of the time you're taking possession. You're an IN resident while living here and you're an IL resident while living there. Simple, don't make it too complicated. If you need IN ID use a lease or get a license to carry here. Since your screwup, the peron you have to convince now is your Indiana dealer since you just burned yourself on the 4473.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yes, if you're taking possession in Indiana. Put whatever state you are a resident of as of the time you're taking possession. You're an IN resident while living here and you're an IL resident while living there. Simple, don't make it too complicated. If you need IN ID use a lease or get a license to carry here. Since your screwup, the peron you have to convince now is your Indiana dealer since you just burned yourself on the 4473.

What about contacting ATF himself and clarifying his residence in writing? Do you guys think that would satisfy the FFL? (of course, finding another FFL might be a good option, too and if questioned, say simply that you misunderstood the question and as your lease proves, you are now a legal resident of Indiana.)

Good luck!

Blessings,
B

 

[CarmelHP]

What about contacting ATF himself and clarifying his residence in writing?

I doubt the ATF would take a position outside of that already published on their website in the question and answer book.

 

[semiauto]

Thanks y'all

Well, I have posted on quite a few forums looking for help, and so far you guys have helped me more in a few posts than others have in seven or eight. I appreciate it gents (and ladies )

 

[semiauto]

Well guys, I talked to my dealer today about all the info I had dug up on my established residency. Here's what he said, "Yea, I already read all that. (?!) I'm trying to find someone who will do it for you, but I won't do it. I talked to (x person) since I thought he had an FFL, but he just has a C&R license. I'll keep looking." Well, long story short, I'm frickin pissed. I spend $560 on this thing, fill in one blank wrong on the 4473, and now I can't get my pistol. I really don't know what to do at this point. Anyone have any suggestions? I am really at a loss here.

 

[GetA2J]

It is a mistake. A costly mistake. It sounds like your hands are tied. The only out is to have the IN FFL ship the handgun to an IL FFL.
1 quick thought though. since I do NOT know about IL laws (rotten commies) Is it possible to have the IN FFL ship to an IL FFL CLOSE to the Indiana border? My thought since I am in Terre haute, Paris or Marshall Illinois are very close here. IF you have an IL ID and a foid card.

Hope this one helps

 

[semiauto]

yeah geta2j, sadly i think you are correct. I was gonna go through Danville but I'll look into Paris and Marshall. I appreciate the info. The worst part? I applied for my FOID card in early august and it still hasn't come yet.

 

[Donnelly]

OK, if I am following this, he/she is in Indiana right now because school is in session. The Indiana FFL has possession of the handgun? Couldn't the current FFL just ship to another nearby FFL01 in Indiana (say the next city over) and this time Mr./Mrs. semiauto fills out the form correctly when picking up the handgun at the new FFL, listing Indiana as his/her residence?

 

[AFA1CY]

One small problem in all this:

ATF form 4473 states:

State of Residence:

The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides

in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in
that State. If an individual is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his
or her State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station
is located. An alien who is legally in the United States is a resident of a State only
if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for at least 90 days
prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. These examples illustrate this
definition:
Example 1. ​

​

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting

trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.
Example 2. ​

​

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home

in State Y. A resides in State X on weekdays, and in State Y on weekends.
During the time A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X. During
the time A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.​

​

​

 

[CarmelHP]

One small problem in all this:

ATF form 4473 states:

Yes, and during the time one actually is present and maintains a domicile in another state for the purpose of attending school, one resides there. An ATF Ruling addresses this explicitly.

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF
TERMS
An out-of-State college student
may establish residence in a State
by residing and maintaining a
home in a college dormitory or in a
location off-campus during the
school term.
ATF Rul. 80-21
"State of residence" is defined by
regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the
State in which an individual regularly
resides or maintains a home. The
regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a
home in State X and a home in State
Y. The individual regularly resides in
State X except for the summer
months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation
states that during the time the individual
actually resides in State X he is a
resident of State X, and during the
time he actually resides in State Y he
is a resident of State Y.
Applying the above example to out of-
State college students it is held,
that during the time the students actually
reside in a college dormitory or
at an off-campus location they are
considered residents of the State
where the dormitory or off-campus
home is located. During the time out of-
State college students actually
reside in their home State they are
considered residents of their home
State.
[ATFB 1980-4 25]
27 CFR 178.11