Thoughts on red dot optics for handguns?

[Kutnupe14]

I like my RMR on my M&P.

This might be a dumb question, but do you carry with the red dot? And if so, how.

Kut (is looking for options)

 

[JollyMon]

This might be a dumb question, but do you carry with the red dot? And if so, how.

Kut (is looking for options)

I do carry with a red dot but not very often (and also not with the stream-light attached), I normally just carry a P238 as I'm not too worried in the golden ghetto. But in reality any holster is fine for a pistol red dot as long as the the top portion of the slide is exposed. I carry Appendix 99% of the time, with the other 1 percent 4 oclock. But if you open carry, I would have no issues finding an holster, as any of my bladetech holsters are fine.

The problem I have is trying holsters before hand. But I recently attended a class where one of the other students was a holster manufacture who has quite an instagram following, trexarms, and he brought a bunch of his holster that they manufacture. He is a skinny guy like me and he had no issues with his glock 17 with t1 attached AIWB. Needless to say, I might be placing an order in the near future.

 

[Rookie]

I carry mine with an rmr. Raven and blackhawk holster is no problem. My IWB holster had to be modified, but the company did it free of charge and still warranty it.
http://stealthgearusa.com/

 

[iChokePeople]

I think Mike nailed it. I've been carrying mostly red dots for a while now. I don't really know how long. Probably Mike or obijohn could give a better guess than I could. I initially had a HELL of a time finding the dot quickly, but it was all user error. I'd been a 1911 guy for a long time, and switched to both the Glock and the dot at the same time. I couldn't figure out why I could never find the damn thing. Someone wise (obijohn) kept me from crushing the glock like a lego and made some great suggestions. I spent a bunch of time working on my draw and presentation with the ugly piece of plastic, and once I'd un****ed my presentation and could put the thing on target, voila, the dot was magically there.

I'm DEFINITELY more accurate with it at longer distances, definitely faster with it at longer distances and transitions. Close stuff... speed is about equal, though I'm just old and slow no matter what I'm using, but still more precise with the dot. If you get a good one, the dot has all kinds of OTHER advantages, like in running one-handed or in "partner-assisted" reloads.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Thanks guys, appreciate the info.

 

[Vigilant]

The onl6 thing I could add to Mike's already excellent post, is the the MOS's are a poor sub for a milled slide mounted RMR. The only reason they exist is to have a something for everyone, or as close as they can get. A properly milled slide fitted with an RMR, or possibly the Delta Point Pro, is in my opinion, the only way to go. Add to that a properly co-witnessed buis, and you have a fine fighting pistol! I daily carry a G19 with a Suarez milled slide and RMR06, either in a Dale Fricke Arch Angel, or a Dale Fricke Zach(the Zach being the easy button for all manners of dress).

 

[Principal Skinr]

I just picked up a Glock 40 MOS slide/barrel to swap onto my Glock 20 frame (Glock 20 slide/barrel is for woods carry) and ordered a Vortex Venom for it. I'll be using it for target shooting and eventually, hog hunting. I still prefer my Glock 19 and small Glocks (42, 43) for carry, with iron/night sights.

The Venom appears to be a very good sight for the money, according to reviews I've seen. I like the Trijicon (I love my Acog and MRO), but can't spend the $ on it. The downside of the Venom is that it is backordered everywhere. I'm hoping mine ships this week.

 

[cedartop]

The onl6 thing I could add to Mike's already excellent post, is the the MOS's are a poor sub for a milled slide mounted RMR. The only reason they exist is to have a something for everyone, or as close as they can get. A properly milled slide fitted with an RMR, or possibly the Delta Point Pro, is in my opinion, the only way to go. Add to that a properly co-witnessed buis, and you have a fine fighting pistol! I daily carry a G19 with a Suarez milled slide and RMR06, either in a Dale Fricke Arch Angel, or a Dale Fricke Zach(the Zach being the easy button for all manners of dress).

Agreed all to heck about the milled vs. MOS slides.

I know a guy who has 3 of the DP pros and swears the batteries only last a week. Have not heard a wider data set about that.

 

[Hohn]

I traded for a Burris Fastfire 2 last night and installed it on my S&W 22 Victory today. It's by far the best red dot I've owned. At 59 years old it's much easier to acquire the target.

Care to elaborate? Looking into RDS for my Victory.

 

[Denny347]

All last week I was teaching LE recruits at the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy. The LT in charge of their firearms has been doing it for decades. We were just discussing this very topic. From his experience running the qualification course to become firearms instructors (I went though in 2000), he has seen officers bring these set ups and have trouble. They are just fine at the 7yrd line on up but the group opens up a bit at the 15yrd and 25yrd lines and it really opens up at the 50yrd line. He stated that the biggest issue is what calls "chasing the dot". The dot is wavering enough at 50 that getting a nice tight group is hard. It's only an issue because the score to qualify to go to the firearms instructor school is so high and you must keep a good group even at the 50yrd line.

 

[cedartop]

All last week I was teaching LE recruits at the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy. The LT in charge of their firearms has been doing it for decades. We were just discussing this very topic. From his experience running the qualification course to become firearms instructors (I went though in 2000), he has seen officers bring these set ups and have trouble. They are just fine at the 7yrd line on up but the group opens up a bit at the 15yrd and 25yrd lines and it really opens up at the 50yrd line. He stated that the biggest issue is what calls "chasing the dot". The dot is wavering enough at 50 that getting a nice tight group is hard. It's only an issue because the score to qualify to go to the firearms instructor school is so high and you must keep a good group even at the 50yrd line.

Interesting. That is almost the exact opposite of my experience and observations. The only way I can see this is if these guys are already not good, but great shooters. I have seen MRDS make mediocre shooters dramatically better at distance.

 

[88E30M50]

I'd love to shoot a red dot sighted pistol some day to see if it helps with the vision issues I've been having. With my dominant eye messed up, I'm struggling with any sights right now and have been putting a lot of practice into point shooting. An RMR on a G23 or G30 might help things a bit. It also might make it worse. It would be interesting to try none the less.

 

[nrgrams]

Interesting. That is almost the exact opposite of my experience and observations. The only way I can see this is if these guys are already not good, but great shooters. I have seen MRDS make mediocre shooters dramatically better at distance.

I agree. I would consider myself an average shooter when it comes to accuracy. Shooting any handguns equipped with MRDS has made me a much better shooter at longer distances, as well as using it as a tool to see other errors, ie, trigger control, flinching, etc.

 

[Rookie]

The onl6 thing I could add to Mike's already excellent post, is the the MOS's are a poor sub for a milled slide mounted RMR. The only reason they exist is to have a something for everyone, or as close as they can get. A properly milled slide fitted with an RMR, or possibly the Delta Point Pro, is in my opinion, the only way to go. Add to that a properly co-witnessed buis, and you have a fine fighting pistol! I daily carry a G19 with a Suarez milled slide and RMR06, either in a Dale Fricke Arch Angel, or a Dale Fricke Zach(the Zach being the easy button for all manners of dress).

This. I was excited when I first heard the M&P core was coming out. Then I got to hold one and it doesn't compare to a properly milled slide.

 

[JollyMon]

This. I was excited when I first heard the M&P core was coming out. Then I got to hold one and it doesn't compare to a properly milled slide.

The only problem I see with a Milled over a MOS... is the lack of modularity and being stuck with the optic you have at the time. Lets say you get get it milled for a delta point but want to switch RMR (we all know gun owners never change their mind). With a milled, its back to the gunsmith. While with the MOS its a quick base plate change and you are back in the action. Are there benefits of a properly milled over an MOS. Absolutely. But I also think sometimes a properly milled can be a bad choice..... IE what if you wanted to try a red dot to see if it is for you (not all people like them).... With a MOS, you just put the cover back on and you are back to using the irons, not so with a milled.