Threatened by Police

[U.S. Patriot]

Of course he can stop you when unlawful actions are taken. OC is not unlawful. Carrying a gun is not unlawful.

Why, then, does this make it OK for cops to search you or wrong for you to resist?

Let's say you don't have a gun. You're just walking down the street and a cop thinks you "look" suspicious. He asks you to put your hands up, and pats you down, searching you. Just give in?

There's this inconvenient thing called illegal search and seizure and I'm not OK with it. PERIOD.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[groovatron]

I think it's scary how easily some people will give up their rights. And yes you've given up your rights even if you were asked politely. Just because you didn't know your rights were violated or even allowed yourself to be violated doesn't mean no violation occured.

Being placed under arrest, even for a short period of time, when you've done nothing illegal is more than a "minor indignity". It's flat out illegal.

If I'm asked politely (in public, mind you) by a LEO to present my ID and LTCH because I'm OCing, I will glady comply. To me, it's them doing their job, and me showing them I have nothing to hide. As long as the encounter is respectful, then I have absolutely no problem with it. I don't look at that as giving up my rights. I have the right to comply just as much as I have a right not to, situation permitting.

Now getting arrested, unreasonably detained, unlawfully searched or seized upon, is a completely different story. I will not tolerate such behavior from not just LEO's, but ANYONE.

Thankfully, I know alot of lawyers......and some owe me favors

Edit: IBTL

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Of course he can stop you when unlawful actions are taken. OC is not unlawful. Carrying a gun is not unlawful.

Why, then, does this make it OK for cops to search you or wrong for you to resist?

Let's say you don't have a gun. You're just walking down the street and a cop thinks you "look" suspicious. He asks you to put your hands up, and pats you down, searching you. Just give in?

There's this inconvenient thing called illegal search and seizure and I'm not OK with it. PERIOD.

The ? was where does it end. This was my full response. I like how you just take bits and pieces that you choose too. Did you even read the whole statement?
When unlawful actions are taken "That's where it ends". He can ask to search you etc. However you do have the choice to say no. If he cuffs, and detains you like what happened to the op. Then he has executed an unlawful action. Unless he sees you as a danger to him, yourself, or others. So do you resist, or suck it up and file a complaint? Again your choice. What I choose may not be what you choose. However it does not make either choice wrong.

Did you read the part where I said if he cuffs, and detains you, then he/she has executed an unlawful action. Same goes if an officer stops you for looking suspicious, and tells you to get your hands up. I would immediately ask why? If he cuffs me unlawfully, then I'm not going to resist and cause possible further steps in force. As much as I would hate to, I would suck it up and fight the legal battle. Now if he approaches, and asks me to stop. I say what's the problem officer. He/she replies you fit the description of a suspect, we are looking for in this area. Yes it does happen. He asks for I.D., I have no problem with that. Even if he asks to search me, again I can turn him down, however I have nothing to hide. If it makes him feel more comfortable, then ok. Now if he just says, I'm going to search you. I would say you do not have the right to do so! Again if he cuffs me, I will not resist. I'll wait untill the matter at hand is concluded, and fight my legal battle. Basicly from what I'm gathering, if you feel like an officer is unlawfuly searching, cuffing, and detaining you. Then you are going to resist? Unlawful or not, you may regret it later. Again though that's a choice for you to make. I'm not saying it's wrong or right! So please do not just copy, and paste what you feel you need too and try to twist everyhting I post. I have been on both sides of the fence, as a Federal LEO and as a civilian!

 

[Jack Ryan]

Hey guys,
I just read that sheriff Richarson of owen county has been informed about my situation and his phone # was left on here for me to call. After reading that he had no paper work from this incendent and that it was not his guy and that it was a different agency. So I was talking to my mother about this because she was with me when it happened and she seems to think the police cars were white wich would be spencer PD. On monday I will be calling spencer PD to see if they have an incedent report but my guess is since they were beating around the bush to give me there names that there probly won't be one. I will also be contacting sheriff Richardson on monday to talk to him about this and if in fact it was not his guys I hope that maybe he can help me find excactly wich agency they worked for. Maybe He will have so good advice for me because the more stuff that I read from you guys the more it bothers me because what happened to me was wrong and should have never happened. I don't want this to happen to anyone else so I give you my word guy that I will get to the bottom of this and I will also keep you all informed.

Have a good weekend and I will talk to you all on monday if not sooner.

Thanks Brad

Just PLEEEEEESE don't say any thing about YOU representing for all gun owners.

 

[300sx]

i would think that if this happened in a grocery store, they would have a camera system. especially in the store.. i would have contacted the sheriffs office and demanded for the tape of all their cameras that night..that will show their faces and go from there..

 

[bigiron]

i'm just curious...............they put you in cuffs and ran your info through IDACS. the OP mentioned in his last post about his mother being present, and she didn't notice what agency they were representing(even under such scrupulous circumstances). in his original post he never mentioned a witness, especially his mom. this still seems vauge to me. OP, i'm not calling BS here but i'm wondering if something else may not have been going on here. ..........wondering............would you possibly have history with someone working at the store, or prehaps history with the local LEOs? it just doesn't seem to add up. INHO, until this is factually proven, i'm still a little leary. what exactly happened that night? thanks.

 

[4sarge]

Hey guys,
I just read that sheriff Richarson of owen county has been informed about my situation and his phone # was left on here for me to call. After reading that he had no paper work from this incendent and that it was not his guy and that it was a different agency. So I was talking to my mother about this because she was with me when it happened and she seems to think the police cars were white wich would be spencer PD. On monday I will be calling spencer PD to see if they have an incedent report but my guess is since they were beating around the bush to give me there names that there probly won't be one. I will also be contacting sheriff Richardson on monday to talk to him about this and if in fact it was not his guys I hope that maybe he can help me find excactly wich agency they worked for. Maybe He will have so good advice for me because the more stuff that I read from you guys the more it bothers me because what happened to me was wrong and should have never happened. I don't want this to happen to anyone else so I give you my word guy that I will get to the bottom of this and I will also keep you all informed.

Have a good weekend and I will talk to you all on monday if not sooner.

Thanks Brad

Spencer cars are white with Black trim and I think that they are wearing Black Uniforms (dark colored). Sheriff would be in distinctive Brown. I would be very surprised if a written police report was made. Failure by the Officers to Identify is a chargeable rules violation on most departments

Police Department, Richard Foutch, Spencer Town Marshal

• 90 N. West St, Spencer, IN 47460 (Located in the Municipal Building)
• (812) 829-3932 Phone

Let us know what their response is and please follow up

 

[XDs4me]

Hire a lawyer, and and pursue criminal and civil complaints against them. They know, or should know, that open carry is legal and not grounds for a Terry stop. When they cuffed you, you were arrested, not detained, and they didn't even have legal grounds to detain you. Any cop that says otherwise is a thug, a liar, a traitor to the Constitution and the law they swore to uphold. Fight back, or like any other criminals, the scum you ran into will continue to terrorize other law abiding citizens.

That is a misstatement. Just because you are cuffed doesnt mean you have been arrested. A lot of cops will cuff you for safety reasons. You are just being detained untill they sort things out. You are under arrest when they say you are being arrested and then read you rights.
I dont agree with the way it was handled and I would file a complaint with the Sheriff.

 

[Joe Williams]

That is a misstatement. Just because you are cuffed doesnt mean you have been arrested. A lot of cops will cuff you for safety reasons. You are just being detained untill they sort things out. You are under arrest when they say you are being arrested and then read you rights.
I dont agree with the way it was handled and I would file a complaint with the Sheriff.

There are several court decisions that say you are absolutely wrong.

 

[ryanbr]

Sounds like some people need to read a little bit more here and get off of the sheriffs back. Seems it has been pretty well determined it was not the sheriffs office.

And to the OP, if you are so shaken up and scared from this contact with the police, that you couldn't tell or think to know what department they are with, how will you be in a life threatening situation? Just a thought.

 

[rooster007]

That is a misstatement. Just because you are cuffed doesnt mean you have been arrested. A lot of cops will cuff you for safety reasons. You are just being detained untill they sort things out. You are under arrest when they say you are being arrested and then read you rights.
I dont agree with the way it was handled and I would file a complaint with the Sheriff.

Who's SAFETY , I have been cuffed before during a routine traffic stop . My license plate light was out . Yes they did CUFF me , Yes I did consent to them searching my truck . No I don't have a criminal record . No I don't have any Traffic violations ( 17 years). Did I feel violated after that yes I did . Did I complain to the Brownsburg police chief ,Yes , nothing ever came of it . Once again Who's safety .

 

[XDs4me]

There are several court decisions that say you are absolutely wrong.

I have yet to see a court decision in writing proving otherwise. As for safety it is both yours and the officers and any innocent bystander that may come along. Until you have worn a badge and done the job of a LEO you really have no clue as to what it is like to that job. It is a very stressful job. At the end of the shift all they want to do is go home alive and safe. I come from a long line of family in LEO, and untill one of your own is killed in the line of duty from something or someone that seemed mundane then maybe you will understand.

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

Umm, actually you do. I can run any plate in my view to check stolen or to see if it belongs on the vehicle it is attached to. .

yeah, a bunch of cops back in ohio got fired for doing that.

 

[rooster007]

I have yet to see a court decision in writing proving otherwise. As for safety it is both yours and the officers and any innocent bystander that may come along. Until you have worn a badge and done the job of a LEO you really have no clue as to what it is like to that job. It is a very stressful job. At the end of the shift all they want to do is go home alive and safe. I come from a long line of family in LEO, and untill one of your own is killed in the line of duty from something or someone that seemed mundane then maybe you will understand.

How does restaining me like some type of animal increase my SAFETY ?
What gives the LEO the right to play BMOC , and violate what I feel to be my rights to not be detained in such an unwarranted manner ,for really no good reason other than the fact that he can.

Please don't get me wrong I am not a cop basher , but when incidents like this occur , it can really change your mind very quickly.

So far as for the stresses of the job , getting home safely , coming from a long line of cop . Losing one of your own , and soforth , and soforth . You are the one that CHOSE to persue this line of employment . Obviously violating someones personal rights is not mundane.

 

[MinuteMan47]

...I will also be contacting sheriff Richardson on monday to talk to him about this and if in fact it was not his guys I hope that maybe he can help me find excactly wich agency they worked for...

Have a good weekend and I will talk to you all on monday if not sooner.

Thanks Brad

Hopefully the IGA has cameras...

 

[jeremy]

As for safety it is both yours and the officers and any innocent bystander that may come along.

Slap a set of cuffs on me for no real good reason...
I have a lawyer on retainer he costs me the same every year if I use him or not.

Until you have worn a badge and done the job of a LEO you really have no clue as to what it is like to that job. It is a very stressful job. At the end of the shift all they want to do is go home alive and safe. I come from a long line of family in LEO, and untill one of your own is killed in the line of duty from something or someone that seemed mundane then maybe you will understand.

And what does this have to do with me being violated?!

Stressful...
LOL...
Come to my playground I'll let you see stressful...

 

[Denny347]

yeah, a bunch of cops back in ohio got fired for doing that.

If it was for personal use then YES, violation. If it is for LEO purposes...100% legal.

-Katz v. U.S., 389 U.S. 347 (1967) (only an expectation of privacy if society accepts as reasonable)


-United States v. Matthews, 615 F.2d 1279, 1285 (10th Cir. 1980) “Every court that has addressed this issue has reached the same conclusion. The Tenth Circuit has held on two occasions that license plates are "in plain view on the outside of the car" and thus, are "subject to seizure" because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy

-New York v. Class, 475 U.S. 106 (1986) (no expectation of privacy in vehicle identification number)

-United States v. Walraven, 892 F.2d 972, 974 (10th Cir. 1989)

-Olabisiomotosho v. City of Houston, 185 F.3d 521, 529 (5th Cir. 1999) The Fifth Circuit has also held that "[a] motorist has no privacy interest in her license plate number."

-State v. Richter, 765 A.2d 687 (New Hampshire Supreme Court 2000)

-United States v. $14,000.00 in U.S. Currency, 2000 U.S. App. LEXIS 2429, No. 98-4380, 2000 WL 222587, at *3 (6th Cir. Feb. 14, 2000) (finding no Fourth Amendment violation in a computer check of a license plate)

- United States v. Sparks, 37 Fed. Appx. 826, 829 (8th Cir. 2002)

- Hallstein v. City of Hermosa Beach, 87 Fed. Appx. 17, 19 (9th Cir. 2003)

- United States v. Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. 831, 832 (6th Cir. 2003) As one panel wrote, "[T]here is no case law indicating that there can be any reasonable expectation of privacy in license plates which are required by law to be displayed in public on the front and rear of any vehicle on a public street." Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. at 832;

- Wayne R. LaFave, 1 Search & Seizure § 2.5(b) (4th ed. 2004) ("t is apparent that when a vehicle is parked on the street or in a lot or at some other location where it is readily subject to observation by members of the public, it is no search for the police to look at the exterior of the vehicle.") (citing Katz and Olabisiomotosho )

-U.S. v. Ellison, 462 F.3d 557 (6th Cir. 2006)

 

[Joe Williams]

If it was for personal use then YES, violation. If it is for LEO purposes...100% legal.
snip

I used to do it when I was bored, and nothing was on the radio. Caught a couple warrants that way.

 

[bigiron]

i'll admit it. statues of limitations have run out by now! i used to do it when i say a hot female just to see where she lived. i know, i know i was a JBT but i got bored easily. anyhow, just make sure dispatch shreads the IDACS report.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

We played out the movie "Super Troopers"