To Dry Fire Or Not..

[Turf Doctor]

Short video discussing to dry fire your pistol or not.

"Dry-fire training will not hurt your pistol. It will help your training. Do it often."
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/difference-right-wrong/

 

[jbombelli]

I've done LOTS of draw/dry fire practice, and have never had a problem with my pistols. I probably wouldn't do that with a rim fire though.

 

[Expatriated]

I, and many of the people I train with, have tens of thousands of dry fires in pistols over the years with not one single problem.

However, I personally do not feel it has the training value I once believed it had and rarely do it now, for the reason most often cited. Many times instructors will prescribe dry practice to someone who has a flinch in an effort to get over the recoil anticipation. I've found this works very little. Once a student KNOWS the gun will not go bang, they hold rock steady. Once they go back to live fire and the gun starts moving around, the brain switches from dry practice to live fire and the recoil anticipation is back. I've seen it help very few times in the 20 years I've been training. At least for recoil anticipation problems, which is pretty much, most of the shooting problems. Same with ball and dummy. It DEMONSTRATES the problem, but it doesn't help correct the problem.

However, dry practice with dummy rounds to work on weapons manipulation is absolutely a valuable training aid. Practicing reloads, malfunction drills, etc, dry is the best way to get better. And it's free. Do it at home and save valuable range time for putting lead on a target, not figuring out how to set up your mags for the fastest reloads.

 

[Tombs]

Considering a number of firearms have been produced that can be damaged by dry fire, a few pennies on a snap cap isn't a bad idea IF YOU INTEND TO DRILL WITH DRY FIRE.

If you're just doing it once in awhile to check function or disassemble, I don't believe it's going to harm much except for a rim fire, which I have personally witnessed wreck its firing pin and chamber.

My H&K USP is from 1994 and it specifically isn't supposed to be dry fired. There's a kit to replace the firing pin with one that will tolerate dry fire, but it's just one example of a handgun that should not be dry fired.

 

[indykid]

Using a specific pistol that I am familiar with, the Beretta 92 in it's owners manual, that thing that most people don't read, specifically states not to dry fire them. I have heard of people bragging about dry firing one and then wondering why the firing pin is broken.

Some pistols can be dry fired safely, but with snap caps being so cheap it makes them good insurance.

Personally I don't take chances. I keep a bag full of snap caps handy just to make practicing easier on my mind.

 

[HamYankee]

I dry fire almost daily. Never used snap caps till I got a SIG p226 and I just got snap caps out of an abundance of precaution and also for training purposes to mix in randomly in my magazines while I shoot. Can check for anticipation/jerking right before firing.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Dry fire is immensely rewarding and should be done whenever possible. That said, it has to be done right since practicing bad habits is silly.

It is not the right drill for overcoming a flinch. "Ball and dummy" drill is what's needed for that. It too can be simulated during dry fire by having a partner simulate recoil by smashing a book (or board or whatever) into the muzzle of the gun when the shooter "shoots." The partner hits the gun to simulate recoil. Every few shots he "misses" or stops short. A big buck or flinch will be seen almost immediately. Over time, the shooter will begin to simply ride out the recoil. Can be done with live/dummy rounds on the range. Partner loads a live, live, live, dummy (or similar pattern) to trick the shooter. Done enough, flinch/buck/jerk is gone.

As for hurting the firearms, there are some that it will hurt, others that will not. The majority of owners manuals are going to tell you not too (lawyers) but the modern processes by which they're made mean they're machined to be utilized under much more intense conditions (firing) over the life of tens to hundreds of thousands of shots. Simply put, modern firearms are fine to dry fire.

I personally took a tour of the Remington facility in Mayfield, KY and the chief of engineering told us there is no harm what-so-ever in dry firing any modern Remington or Marlin rifles, including rimfires. He specifically encouraged us to dry fire!

 

[rhino]

At this point, I should post the public service announcement that the "fire" part of dry practice (i.e. the actually trigger press that releases the hammer or striker) is only a small part of the big picture. Most of the benefits of dry practice are for skills that don't require a functional trigger press.

 

[Mustang1911]

Only guns I don't and wouldn't dry fire are rim fire guns and revolvers with hammer mounted firing pins. Other than that I dry fire anything else I own.

 

[Expatriated]

At this point, I should post the public service announcement that the "fire" part of dry practice (i.e. the actually trigger press that releases the hammer or striker) is only a small part of the big picture. Most of the benefits of dry practice are for skills that don't require a functional trigger press.

Yes! Agree 100%. To me, this is what dry practice is for.

 

[tocws2002]

Thanks for the video link, I had heard dry-fire was not a good thing....video and posts above clear up the difference between rimfire and centerfire. I learned something today!

-jb

 

[chezuki]

While I certainly prefer moist fire, I will engage in dry fire when I am home alone. The skills, control, and discipline practiced during dry fire can make you a far more satisfying shooter should you find yourself in a sticky situation.

 

[=Josh=]

Thanks for the link, Turf. When I get my first pistol, eventually, I plan to dry fire it. I'll probably also purchase some snap caps as well to practice all sorts of mechanics. I want to work on all of the mechanics (loading a mag, mag change, cocking, holster, draw, aim, etc.) as much as I can to develop some muscle memory over time.

 

[prescut]

Anyone who looks at a rimfire 22 revolver cylinder can easily see the result of dry firing. There will be a small indent along the edge of each chamber where the firing pin hit the rim. The indent can have a burr sticking out and that can catch the next round and make it difficult to load and unload. Also, that rimfire firing pin is hitting steel and not brass. That's why 22 firing pins break or get flattened.

A centerfire's firing pin hits nothing (the center of the charging hole) when there is no cartridge.

It only takes dryfiring a 22 revolver Once to see the indent.

I have kept expended 22 brass and painted them red with nail polish. I paint them red to make certain they are my snapcaps. You can also use drywall plastic anchors as snapcaps. They fit perfect.

 

[Grelber]

Many times instructors will prescribe dry practice to someone who has a flinch in an effort to get over the recoil anticipation. I've found this works very little. Once a student KNOWS the gun will not go bang, they hold rock steady. Once they go back to live fire and the gun starts moving around, the brain switches from dry practice to live fire and the recoil anticipation is back. I've seen it help very few times in the 20 years I've been training. At least for recoil anticipation problems, which is pretty much, most of the shooting problems. Same with ball and dummy. It DEMONSTRATES the problem, but it doesn't help correct the problem.

My personal experience has been exactly as you noted, for the first few months, but eventually it did seem to fix the problem. So for me it is a good fix if you are willing to put in the time and maintain some level of practice, but not an overnight cure or something that you can just do for a while and then not need to maintain.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

From Wikipedia -

Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

So..... let's see. Squeezing the trigger of a gun, all the while expecting that it will not discharge. Violates rule #1.

Doing this anywhere but at the range or in front of your sand bucket Violates #2 and/or #4.

I know that dry-fire has become all the rage nowadays. My Ruger's manual even says It's OK to do this. I will never convince you kids that dry-fire is a vile and filthy habit. Still I will once again try to save a life. Those of you who are engaging in extensive dry-fire drills are learning many things...... One of those things is "muscle memory". You may practice your draw, sight picture, breath control and trigger squeeze a hundred times. Great, now you're quite the expert, and an athlete to boot.

Just make sure that if you ever feel the need to draw your gun, that you don't do exactly what you have been training to do! You have been training yourself to draw and fire as one cycle when in reality you had better DETERMINE THE THREAT, and then CONSCIOUSLY decide to squeeze that trigger. I don't know how many times I have read "The gun just went off!". Make damn sure that you don't train yourself to set it off without thinking.

Another scenario. You are training your brain that it's OK to snap off a gun knowing that it won't go off. You have pulled that trigger hundreds of times just knowing it won't discharge. Don't get a brain fart! Don't ever just pick up your gun and squeeze the trigger! You've ALREADY DONE IT HUNDREDS OF TIMES, you don't think your subconscious no longer fears that gun? You don't believe that training works? You don't believe that you could accidentally pick up that gun and pull the trigger like you have been training yourself to do? Training so hard that It's second nature? Repetitive training of repetitive movements are easily repeated. Read the papers. Women leave their babies, guys crash their cars stepping on the gas for the brakes. Brain farts occur and you don't even know what happened, even while to everyone witnessing the episode the fault is obvious. When a gun goes off, especially a modern gun in good condition, you know..... One that It's safe to dry-fire...... Somebody pulled that trigger.

Don't even try to say it doesn't happen. It happens so often that we even named it, accidental discharge/negligent discharge. Don't train to do one. Every time I touch a trigger I want to fear that the gun will go off. But hey, you guys are experts. No problem for you.

 

[Grelber]

Trolling fits well with the Mr.Natural avatar .

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Find me a top level competitive shooter who doesn't dry fire. In the 'real world' I was taught to dry fire in the military and as an LEO to supplement and to compliment live fire. Dry fire, when done properly and as part of a varied training regimen, is instrumental in increasing your skill level.

Dry fire is a lot more than jerking the gun out of the holster and hitting the trigger. If you don't know what you're doing beyond that, you're probably just burning in bad reps anyway. There are some excellent resources for dry fire routines available.

 

[phylodog]

I know that dry-fire has become all the rage nowadays. My Ruger's manual even says It's OK to do this. I will never convince you kids that dry-fire is a vile and filthy habit. Still I will once again try to save a life. Those of you who are engaging in extensive dry-fire drills are learning many things...... One of those things is "muscle memory". You may practice your draw, sight picture, breath control and trigger squeeze a hundred times. Great, now you're quite the expert, and an athlete to boot.

Just make sure that if you ever feel the need to draw your gun, that you don't do exactly what you have been training to do! You have been training yourself to draw and fire as one cycle when in reality you had better DETERMINE THE THREAT, and then CONSCIOUSLY decide to squeeze that trigger. I don't know how many times I have read "The gun just went off!". Make damn sure that you don't train yourself to set it off without thinking.

Another scenario. You are training your brain that it's OK to snap off a gun knowing that it won't go off. You have pulled that trigger hundreds of times just knowing it won't discharge. Don't get a brain fart! Don't ever just pick up your gun and squeeze the trigger! You've ALREADY DONE IT HUNDREDS OF TIMES, you don't think your subconscious no longer fears that gun? You don't believe that training works? You don't believe that you could accidentally pick up that gun and pull the trigger like you have been training yourself to do? Training so hard that It's second nature? Repetitive training of repetitive movements are easily repeated. Read the papers. Women leave their babies, guys crash their cars stepping on the gas for the brakes. Brain farts occur and you don't even know what happened, even while to everyone witnessing the episode the fault is obvious. When a gun goes off, especially a modern gun in good condition, you know..... One that It's safe to dry-fire...... Somebody pulled that trigger.

Don't even try to say it doesn't happen. It happens so often that we even named it, accidental discharge/negligent discharge. Don't train to do one. Every time I touch a trigger I want to fear that the gun will go off. But hey, you guys are experts. No problem for you.

That's a cool theory but doesn't hold water. Dry fire practice does not create bad habits, if done correctly. Our recruits get nothing but dry fire practice for weeks before they ever lay hands on a live round or a functional pistol (we issue them plastic training barrels). They have thousands of dry fire cycles under their belt by the time they show up to the range. They are taught to pay attention to everything they do, stance, grip, draw stroke, sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, etc.. When they come to the range they'll fire between 2000-2500 live rounds during their 120 hours of firearms training.

We started this approach several years ago. We've trained over 200 recruits in this fashion. Not a single negligent discharge. There is a difference between training and proper training. I've heard of precious few negligent discharges which could be blamed on dry fire practice.

 

[Grelber]

You guys are feeding the troll.