Todd Young is a ***** Senator - but is he as bad as Democrat?

[SheepDog4Life]

From the McCarthy Thread:

So I'll make a deal with you I'll post 5 bills that were unconstitutional votes. I'll list them and how he voted. You go research each one then come back and tell me why it was an unconstitutional vote.

After you study those 5 I'll get you 5 more, and so on.

Otherwise it's a pure waste of time.

I'll play with this counter... your "stats" was:

I look at the constitutionally of the vote. 118th he's 50% at best.

His overall is about 52%. 116th congress he vote against constitutional 73% of the time.

Do either the 118th congress or the 116th where you feel a Constitutional question was at stake. Personally, I think he's getting worse and the later Congress would be more damning of him, but sounds like you are more exacting for the 116th. Either was, you chose... in your opinion, unconstitutional votes Young made in the 118th Congress... or in the 116th Congress.

ETA: And I'll start a new thread or find a Young thread so this isn't a total thread jack!

Lol, that would be this thread.

 

[DadSmith]

From the McCarthy Thread:


I'll play with this counter... your "stats" was:



Do either the 118th congress or the 116th where you feel a Constitutional question was at stake. Personally, I think he's getting worse and the later Congress would be more damning of him, but sounds like you are more exacting for the 116th. Either was, you chose... in your opinion, unconstitutional votes Young made in the 118th Congress... or in the 116th Congress.

ETA: And I'll start a new thread or find a Young thread so this isn't a total thread jack!

H.R. 6395 - voted Yes bad vote

H.R. 133 - voted Yes bad vote

S. 178 - voted No bad vote

H.R. 8337 - voted Yes bad vote.

S. 4049 - voted yes bad vote

Now look those bills up. First five.
You'll see how fiscally conservative he isn't, and many unconstitutional votes.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

H.R. 6395 - voted Yes bad vote

Ok, I'm finding that to be the Defense Authorization bill:

H.R.6395 - William M. (Mac) Thornberry National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021 - 116th Congress (2019-2020)

It passed 81-13 (6 NV) to over-ride Trump's veto... so from that I'm guessing that this is the part you are referring to:

The president also balked at language that would impose limits on how many troops can be withdrawn from Afghanistan and Germany — and how quickly.

Which is an unconstitutional infringement on the President's powers and CinC.

H.R. 133 - voted Yes bad vote

H.R.133 - Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021

The overall bill passed the Senate 92-6, with Blackburn, Cruz, Johnson, Lee, Paul and Scott opposing and Enzi and Rounds not voting.

Was there a specific section or amendment you're referring to specifically? Or just crappy appropriations?

S. 178 - voted No bad vote

S.178 - UIGHUR Act of 2019

Measure Title: A bill to condemn gross human rights violations of ethnic Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang, and calling for an end to arbitrary detention, torture, and harassment of these communities inside and outside China.

SMH on this one, I'm seeing he voted "Yes" with all the other R's:

U.S. Senate: U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 116th Congress - 2nd Session

www.senate.gov

H.R. 8337 - voted Yes bad vote.

H.R.8337 - Continuing Appropriations Act, 2021 and Other Extensions Act

Yeah, crappy CR spending too much... but passed 84-10 (6 NV) and Trump signed it. And that 84 means 2/3's of R's voted for it.

S. 4049 - voted yes bad vote

S.4049 - National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021

Is there a specific item or amendment on this?

In the Senate, it originally was 90-7 then a lot of amendments, and the final was 86-14. But it doesn't look like this went to the House, instead #1 at the top, H.R.6395, came to the Senate. Did this Senate version also have the CinC infringement on "forcing" a certain troop level in Europe or elsewhere?

Might have been crappy fiscally, but he voted with the vast majority of the R's, let alone all of the D's.

Now look those bills up. First five.
You'll see how fiscally conservative he isn't, and many unconstitutional votes.

Mostly, he's just your run-of-the-mill-crappy Republican. Unless I'm missing some specific Amendment votes. Only one of them had a Constitutional component, but you didn't really point to anything specific.

One Unconstitutional appropriations item that cuts almost all of the Senators (except a very few) as well as all of the Presidential candidates, Trump included, is the unconstitutionality of "paying" entitlements without each congress voting on a budget/appropriation for them.

I was thinking you had more examples where Young joined Collins and Murkowski, plus a couple others, to advance the Dem agenda. Like this one:

S.2938 - Bipartisan Safer Communities Act

Someone says "he betrayed us and voted with the Dems and a couple others" on that one, and I'd say absolutely true... but if we had a Dem Senator in Young's place, it would not have changed one iota.

Again, let's find another Braun-type and primary Young.

 

[DadSmith]

Ok, I'm finding that to be the Defense Authorization bill:

H.R.6395 - William M. (Mac) Thornberry National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021 - 116th Congress (2019-2020)

It passed 81-13 (6 NV) to over-ride Trump's veto... so from that I'm guessing that this is the part you are referring to:

Which is an unconstitutional infringement on the President's powers and CinC.




H.R.133 - Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021

The overall bill passed the Senate 92-6, with Blackburn, Cruz, Johnson, Lee, Paul and Scott opposing and Enzi and Rounds not voting.

Was there a specific section or amendment you're referring to specifically? Or just crappy appropriations?


S.178 - UIGHUR Act of 2019

Measure Title: A bill to condemn gross human rights violations of ethnic Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang, and calling for an end to arbitrary detention, torture, and harassment of these communities inside and outside China.

SMH on this one, I'm seeing he voted "Yes" with all the other R's:

U.S. Senate: U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 116th Congress - 2nd Session

www.senate.gov

H.R.8337 - Continuing Appropriations Act, 2021 and Other Extensions Act

Yeah, crappy CR spending too much... but passed 84-10 (6 NV) and Trump signed it. And that 84 means 2/3's of R's voted for it.


S.4049 - National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021

Is there a specific item or amendment on this?

In the Senate, it originally was 90-7 then a lot of amendments, and the final was 86-14. But it doesn't look like this went to the House, instead #1 at the top, H.R.6395, came to the Senate. Did this Senate version also have the CinC infringement on "forcing" a certain troop level in Europe or elsewhere?

Might have been crappy fiscally, but he voted with the vast majority of the R's, let alone all of the D's.


Mostly, he's just your run-of-the-mill-crappy Republican. Unless I'm missing some specific Amendment votes. Only one of them had a Constitutional component, but you didn't really point to anything specific.

One Unconstitutional appropriations item that cuts almost all of the Senators (except a very few) as well as all of the Presidential candidates, Trump included, is the unconstitutionality of "paying" entitlements without each congress voting on a budget/appropriation for them.

I was thinking you had more examples where Young joined Collins and Murkowski, plus a couple others, to advance the Dem agenda. Like this one:

S.2938 - Bipartisan Safer Communities Act

Someone says "he betrayed us and voted with the Dems and a couple others" on that one, and I'd say absolutely true... but if we had a Dem Senator in Young's place, it would not have changed one iota.

Again, let's find another Braun-type and primary Young.

H.R.6395

Includes spending for military interventionism in foreign lands that does not make America safer.
Also, the legislation undercuts the president’s legitimate authority as commander-in-chief.

H.R.133

An annual federal deficit of $3.1 trillion in fiscal 2020, is a fiscal disaster.

Congress combined all federal spending and coronavirus aid into one gigantic “take it or leave it” bill.

The coronavirus aid exceed the federal government’s authority. These are reserved for the states and the people under the 10th Amendment.

S.178
The U.S. government should not be attempting to regulate healthcare or health insurance in any way.

H.R.8337
Congress needs to cut spending. This is not fiscally conservative.

S.4049
Senate's decision to table Senator Paul's amendment.
The AUMF amendment should have been repealed. Only congress has the Constitutional power to declare war.


Now 5 more.

S.Amdt. 1586 to H.R. 6172 voted No bad vote

H.R. 748 voted Yes bad vote

H.R. 5430 voted Yes bad vote

H.R. 1865 voted Yes bad vote.

S.Amdt. 883 to S. 1790 voted no bad vote

 

[SheepDog4Life]

H.R.6395

Includes spending for military interventionism in foreign lands that does not make America safer.
Also, the legislation undercuts the president’s legitimate authority as commander-in-chief.

H.R.133

An annual federal deficit of $3.1 trillion in fiscal 2020, is a fiscal disaster.

Congress combined all federal spending and coronavirus aid into one gigantic “take it or leave it” bill.

The coronavirus aid exceed the federal government’s authority. These are reserved for the states and the people under the 10th Amendment.

S.178
The U.S. government should not be attempting to regulate healthcare or health insurance in any way.

H.R.8337
Congress needs to cut spending. This is not fiscally conservative.

S.4049
Senate's decision to table Senator Paul's amendment.
The AUMF amendment should have been repealed. Only congress has the Constitutional power to declare war.


Now 5 more.

S.Amdt. 1586 to H.R. 6172 voted No bad vote

H.R. 748 voted Yes bad vote

H.R. 5430 voted Yes bad vote

H.R. 1865 voted Yes bad vote.

S.Amdt. 883 to S. 1790 voted no bad vote

Are any of these where Young voted against the vast majority of the other R Senators?

Otherwise, this isn't about Young... it's about most R Senators.

 

[DadSmith]

Are any of these where Young voted against the vast majority of the other R Senators?

Otherwise, this isn't about Young... it's about most R Senators.

I see you are no longer wanting to see that he is no better than many democrats. You are now making excuses for him. This is his voting record.
It shows he is just as bad as a Democrat when it comes to spending on socialist programs.
He basically a Democratic Socialist.
He's just as bad as a many Democrats when voting against the constitution.
I figured you would stop, and make excuses it didn't take long.

Fiscal conservative, and defender of the constitution he is not.

Todd Young voted for
Bipartisan Safer Communities Act
Hydrofluorocarbons Reduction
Foreign Aid even to our enemies
More Gun Control more spending on red flag laws
Against a balanced budget
He's for government bailouts

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I see you are no longer wanting to see that he is no better than many democrats. You are now making excuses for him. This is his voting record.
It shows he is just as bad as a Democrat when it comes to spending on socialist programs.
He basically a Democratic Socialist.
He's just as bad as a many Democrats when voting against the constitution.
I figured you would stop, and make excuses it didn't take long.

Fiscal conservative, and defender of the constitution he is not.

Fiscal conservative? Who is?

Anyone who's voted for any appropriations in the past 40 years isn't. Anyone who doesn't recognize Social Security, MediCare and Medicaid have to be brought under control, isn't. Etc. Etc.

Young isn't... but Trump isn't either... maybe Rand Paul and that's it in the Senate?

Todd Young voted for
Bipartisan Safer Communities Act
Hydrofluorocarbons Reduction
Foreign Aid even to our enemies
More Gun Control more spending on red flag laws
Against a balanced budget
He's for government bailouts

Try leading with those... I thought the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act and the lame duck spending package after the 2022 election for the first ever lame duck omnibus budget bill.

You first ten items were not "proving" he's no better than a Democrat... they were proving he isn't Paul, Blackborne, Cruz or Braun. With the specific examples you've given, you could easily be talking about 35-40 other R Senators.

Where are the “differentiators”? Where it’s just, I dunno, 8 Rs and all the Ds?

I already gave you two.

 

[DadSmith]

Fiscal conservative? Who is?

Anyone who's voted for any appropriations in the past 40 years isn't. Anyone who doesn't recognize Social Security, MediCare and Medicaid have to be brought under control, isn't. Etc. Etc.

Young isn't... but Trump isn't either... maybe Rand Paul and that's it in the Senate?


Try leading with those... I thought the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act and the lame duck spending package after the 2022 election for the first ever lame duck omnibus budget bill.

You first ten items were not "proving" he's no better than a Democrat... they were proving he isn't Paul, Blackborne, Cruz or Braun. With the specific examples you've given, you could easily be talking about 35-40 other R Senators.

Where are the “differentiators”? Where it’s just, I dunno, 8 Rs and all the Ds?

I already gave you two.

We aren't talking about other Republicans we are talking about Todd and his voting record.
He owns his votes. You can't blame other's for your actions. Nor can he.

Are you saying because McConnell or Romney or some other leftist Republican voted for it its OK if Young does?

 

[DadSmith]

Not at all... the premise of this debate was whether or not Young is no better than a Democrat and we should let him fail in the general election because a Democrat would do no more damage.

I disagreed vehemently and posted this post that Young is "liberal" versus a CPAC measure of important votes, but NOTHING like even the most conservative Dem.

It all stems from this post:

He isn't any better. Joe Manchin, Sherrod Brown 116th Congress had the same voting record as Todd Young. How is Todd better?

Kamala Harris, and Cory Booker actually had a better voting record in the 116th Congress than Todd Young.

When I say better I mean they voted with the constitution more than Todd Young.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

We aren't talking about other Republicans we are talking about Todd and his voting record.
He owns his votes. You can't blame other's for your actions. Nor can he.

Are you saying because McConnell or Romney or some other leftist Republican voted for it its OK if Young does?

We aren't talking about other Republicans we are talking about Todd and his voting record.
He owns his votes. You can't blame other's for your actions. Nor can he.

Are you saying because McConnell or Romney or some other leftist Republican voted for it its OK if Young does?

Not at all... the premise of this debate was whether or not Young is no better than a Democrat and we should let him fail in the general election because a Democrat would do no more damage.

I disagreed vehemently and posted this post that Young is "liberal" versus a CPAC measure of important votes, but NOTHING like even the most conservative Dem.

Further, the 10 votes you've listed so far have 30-35 other Republican Senators voting WITH Young and against our interests. Following the ****-can Young for these particular votes, to it logical conclusion, means ****-can him along with 30-35 other R Senators, leading to a 90-10 or 85-15 Dem Senate, but that things will get better after that.

Your mission is to prove that not only does Young suck (that's agreed) but that he is so particularly bad that we would be better off in the long run with 6 years (which could risk turning into 12/18/etc) of another Bayh/Donnelly/etc generic Dem Senator.... because Young is that particularly bad.

If your argument is that Young votes anti-Constitution and anti-conservative enough that you cannot vote for him... I have no argument against that. I've said that multiple times.

That leaves my original argument that you took issue with:

If you don't want to vote for Young because he's a ******* ************* piece of ****, then have at it, it's your right, and I would not disagree with that characterization.

But, do not say he's no better than a Democrat, or always votes with them, etc.

That is just plain false. Bigly false.

 

[DadSmith]

Wrong!
I stated before the election I posted Todd Young's record. You said show me Todd Young's 116th voting record. I started, but you seen it was going down hill for you and started changing things.
I'm here to show you and everyone Todd Young is no different than a Democrat doesn't mean every single one, and when the chips are down you will find him in line with the leftist woke elite. His voting record proved that.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

He isn't any better. Joe Manchin, Sherrod Brown 116th Congress had the same voting record as Todd Young. How is Todd better?

Kamala Harris, and Cory Booker actually had a better voting record in the 116th Congress than Todd Young.

When I say better I mean they voted with the constitution more than Todd Young.

Ok, now we are onto something.... let's talk about these specific votes.

I don't think those facts will prove out... and am looking them up now, but haven't dug into:

Premise:
Young was equal to Manching/Brown and worse than Harris/Booker in the 116th Congress.

Your "subset" is Constitutional votes... I'm looking at what CPAC considers conservative vs liberal votes... we'll see if we can square that circle. (we should be able to because Constitutional votes should be de facto conservative votes... and the most important ones of the conservative vs liberal voting universe... we'll see)

 

[DadSmith]

Ok, now we are onto something.... let's talk about these specific votes.

I don't think those facts will prove out... and am looking them up now, but haven't dug into:

Premise:
Young was equal to Manching/Brown and worse than Harris/Booker in the 116th Congress.

Your "subset" is Constitutional votes... I'm looking at what CPAC considers conservative vs liberal votes... we'll see if we can square that circle. (we should be able to because Constitutional votes should be de facto conservative votes... and the most important ones of the conservative vs liberal voting universe... we'll see)

Lol CPAC. You can’t figure it out yourself?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Wrong!
I stated before the election I posted Todd Young's record. You said show me Todd Young's 116th voting record. I started, but you seen it was going down hill for you and started changing things.
I'm here to show you and everyone Todd Young is no different than a Democrat doesn't mean every single one, and when the chips are down you will find him in line with the leftist woke elite. His voting record proved that.

We are posting simultaneously... I think that you've formulated a premise we can debate, that on constitutional issues/vote, "Young was equal to Manching/Brown and worse than Harris/Booker in the 116th Congress."

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Just an FYI... I'm travelling this weekend on family business, so my responses will be delayed. In the meantime, I'll be thinking back to 2019-2020, 116th Congress, second half of the Trump Presidency, on what votes mattered most.

One thing I already found, that I didn't know previously (or if I did, had forgotten, lol), is that Young was/is a member of the Republican Main Street Partnership... definitely starts him in a hole given the others (including Collins) in this group.

MEMBERS | RMSP

www.republicanmainstreet.org

 

[Ingomike]

Just an FYI... I'm travelling this weekend on family business, so my responses will be delayed. In the meantime, I'll be thinking back to 2019-2020, 116th Congress, second half of the Trump Presidency, on what votes mattered most.

One thing I already found, that I didn't know previously (or if I did, had forgotten, lol), is that Young was/is a member of the Republican Main Street Partnership... definitely starts him in a hole given the others (including Collins) in this group.

MEMBERS | RMSP

www.republicanmainstreet.org

Crazy, a red state senator is a member of a swing state or swing district group…

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Crazy, a red state senator is a member of a swing state or swing district group…

Yes, the company you keep isn't "everything", but it's also not nothing, far from it!