Traded guns, What happens?

[nailknocker]

Here's my question, I take a couple of my handguns to my local gunshop, by my handguns, I mean that I had purchased them and filled out the proper paper work at the time of purchase.

Now I want to trade them in on the latest whiz bang gun of the week. The shop owner and I come to terms on the trade, he takes my guns, there is no paper work involved, they just disappear behind the counter, at least that's how it has always worked for me.

The question is at what point are they transferred out of my name.
The shop owner takes them back and puts them in a store room, for a day or a year, and they are stolen and then connected to a crime whose name shows up as the owner?

Could a shop owner gift a traded gun without any transfers being made, how does this kinda stuff work?

 

[garyindiane]

The guns are not in your name to begin with.

The paperwork says that you bought a long gun or a pistol. That is it.


-Gary

Nevermind I misunderstood the question.

 

[Leo]

Any real FFL shop has to enter every firearm (or piece with a serial number, like an AR Lower) in a permanent record that he has them that has to be made available to the BATF inspectors at a moments notice. Any firearm in a store that is not in the record will cause the FFL a lot of grief, up to and including arrest in an extreme case. It used to be a hard copy bound book, now they allow some registered software to be used. Either way, the Gun shop ownwer has to have it recorded as to the date, make, model and serial number, both going in and going out. I am sure your guy just does the paperwork at the end of the day. Any FFL that will sell some "under the counter" deals, is just asking for serious legal difficulties.

 

[IndyGunworks]

the shop should give you a reciept w/ the serial numbers makes and models of the guns that you sell/trade to them. then they log them in coming from your first and last name and adress.

then when they sell them, they log them out to whoever they sell them to.

if you are not getting any record of selling/trading them to the gunshop then i wouldnd do business there anymore. they are not a private party and there is no such thing as "under the table" w/ an FFL

 

[sepe]

All parties involved are going to spend some time under the stars at Club Fed.

 

[target64]

Here's my question, I take a couple of my handguns to my local gunshop, by my handguns, I mean that I had purchased them and filled out the proper paper work at the time of purchase.

Now I want to trade them in on the latest whiz bang gun of the week. The shop owner and I come to terms on the trade, he takes my guns, there is no paper work involved, they just disappear behind the counter, at least that's how it has always worked for me.
The question is at what point are they transferred out of my name.
There is paperwork involved, The shop owner per regulations should enter the fireams into their "bound book". at the time they take possesion of the firearm. This contains specific data concerning the firearm ie: make model serial number and from whom it was acquired.

The shop owner takes them back and puts them in a store room, for a day or a year, and they are stolen and then connected to a crime whose name shows up as the owner?
A gun trace will start as follows:
Manufacturer
Distributer
Gun Shop/FFL
Original private owner
All of the above transactions are accompanied with paperwork
If the second FFL does not properly do their paperwork the trace will end as you being the current owner.


Could a shop owner gift a traded gun without any transfers being made, how does this kinda stuff work?
Yes a shop owner could do that, and they also would not like the outcome if they were to be caught doing so.

Comments in red

 

[nailknocker]

That is my point, only he and I know that I traded in a gun. Yet somewhere out there somebody knows that I have purchased X number of guns because I have filled out the 4473 forms, and now I have traded two of them off with no accounting for them at my end. I know there is no registration in Indiana, but the 4473's are a paper trail as to the number of purchases.

 

[Hawkeye]

That is my point, only he and I know that I traded in a gun. Yet somewhere out there somebody knows that I have purchased X number of guns because I have filled out the 4473 forms, and now I have traded two of them off with no accounting for them at my end. I know there is no registration in Indiana, but the 4473's are a paper trail as to the number of purchases.

Same situation if you sell a firearm to a resident of your State in a private transaction or "make a gift" of them to a resident of your State. Etc.

 

[CountryBoy19]

That is my point, only he and I know that I traded in a gun. Yet somewhere out there somebody knows that I have purchased X number of guns because I have filled out the 4473 forms, and now I have traded two of them off with no accounting for them at my end. I know there is no registration in Indiana, but the 4473's are a paper trail as to the number of purchases.

IMHO, you're paranoid about it. Private party transactions take place daily where there is no paper trail so it is very common for the paper trail to "lead" to a certain person and then dead-end there even if that person no longer possesses said firearm. A mere paper-trail showing you were the last known person to own a particular firearm is not grounds for suspicion of a crime etc. At most (unless you really are involved in the crime) you will get some agents at your door that ask if you still own that firearm. Most likely they will just call and ask you if you still own it. It's happened to members here before, there is nothing to worry about unless you really are involved in the crime they are investigating.

 

[JetGirl]

If by "shop owner" you mean an FFL dealer, you'd have likely given him your driver's license info. This is all they need from you to log in the gun into their inventory, and they have 24 hours to do it.

 

[nailknocker]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to come across as paranoid, not my intent.

If the shop owner takes my trade, it's his, I gave it to him, now say that it fills a need in his personal collection and he just puts it in his safe, it's not for sale, would he have to do a transfer.

 

[JetGirl]

If the shop owner takes my trade, it's his, I gave it to him, now say that it fills a need in his personal collection and he just puts it in his safe, it's not for sale, would he have to do a transfer.

No.

Q: Does an individual (not a corporation or partnership) licensee have to conduct a NICS check on himself or herself prior to transferring a firearm to his or her own personal collection?

No. The regulations do not require a licensee to complete a Form 4473 prior to transferring a firearm to his or her own personal collection. A NICS check is not required either. Such transfers must be recorded in the manner prescribed by the regulations at 27 CFR 478.125a.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Brady Law

 

[goinggreyfast]

This didn't happen in Ellettsville did it?

 

[revolvers&w]

Anytime I have traded a gun the FFL took my I.D. copied the serial numbers down and gave me a copy.
It is possible that the dealer kept them for himself and made up the difference on your sale from his pocket and the guns were never property of the store.

 

[nailknocker]

I guess, I need to put a disclaimer in here, nothing has happened to warrant my question.

Earlier today I was looking at some old posts regarding gifting a gun, both from person to person,and purchasing a gun from a shop with the intent of gifting to a third party, which seemed to me to open a can of worms, depending on who handed who the money and how you answered the 4473 question about who is the buyer/owner.

Now, if Jetgirl is correct,(and I'm sure she is) then if the shop owner keeps my trade for his personal collection for say a year then decides to give it to his grandson as a gift, then this is okay? All of this can be done without a transfer.