Train derailment in Ohio and chemical release

[Shadow01]

Outlandish fines for contamination is the best answer. When the threat of fining them out of business is hanging over their head, it changes their attitude. Being able to go after corporate performance bonuses and stock options would also help.

 

[jamil]

What difference would a notification ahead of time have made?

I think it's not a bad idea to notify the state so that local EPA officials are aware. I don't know that it would have changed anything. Likely the same decisions that were made would be made either way and likely with the same timing.

 

[KLB]

I think it's not a bad idea to notify the state so that local EPA officials are aware. I don't know that it would have changed anything. Likely the same decisions that were made would be made either way and likely with the same timing.

So we want to add useless red tape to things?

Sounds like more useless "we have to do something!"

 

[ditcherman]

Outlandish fines for contamination is the best answer. When the threat of fining them out of business is hanging over their head, it changes their attitude. Being able to go after corporate performance bonuses and stock options would also help.

I still say the problem is based in crony capitalism, defined as running a company for the benefit of stockholders, as opposed to its founding vision/current mission statement (that doesn't involve stockholders).
The first people paid, should be the ones that need to care, and paid enough to care, and if there's anything left the owners/stockholders get some, after reinvestment in the companies mission is met.

Coming from someone who owns multiple small businesses, and has been running some kind of business for more of his life than not.

 

[jamil]

So we want to add useless red tape to things?

Sounds like more useless "we have to do something!"

I'm not advocating for it. I said I didn't think it would hurt. Not hurting isn't a grand reason to do something.

I also wouldn't say that it should be the knee jerk reaction to this. I'm not a first responder or a EPA person. Maybe it could help with their preparedness. Maybe it's a complete waste of time. I don't know how it could have made the consequences any better. I think I would want to see an honest evaluation of whether it's worth it by people who do this for a living.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Ohio governor says there is no federal law that the railroads have to notify the state there are hazardous materials on a train...
He's the damn governor, he could of had a law for his own state..the guy is republican and signs laws all the time. Seems it doesn't matter what political party you're from, they are all idiots!!

Wouldn't fly, as Bug stated it's federal. There were states that made it illegal for a non moving train to block a street for more than x amount of time, IN was one of them IIRC. Several courts have shot them down. There is a case that is possibly heading to SCOTUS regarding it.

Interstate commerce clause federalizes that issue. Legislature could make the law, governor could sign it and it wouldn't last 3 months

You might be able to do it for hazmat that has a destination in your state but not those passing through

Yep.

I think it's not a bad idea to notify the state so that local EPA officials are aware. I don't know that it would have changed anything. Likely the same decisions that were made would be made either way and likely with the same timing.

Best I can find out there are about 2.2 million rail cars hauling chemicals a year, that's about 4-6% of all rail cars. You think that the locals would be able to keep up with and track each one?

 

[cg21]

Probably an unpopular opinion and way off track ………… maybe we need to take a look at some of the chemicals that have become parts of our daily lives……

 

[KLB]

I still say the problem is based in crony capitalism, defined as running a company for the benefit of stockholders, as opposed to its founding vision/current mission statement (that doesn't involve stockholders).
The first people paid, should be the ones that need to care, and paid enough to care, and if there's anything left the owners/stockholders get some, after reinvestment in the companies mission is met.

Coming from someone who owns multiple small businesses, and has been running some kind of business for more of his life than not.

First, I don't think that is what crony capitalism is.

Second, what you described though is how any large public company is run. The first people paid are the ones that have to care, the CEOs and other leadership. They are the ones that run the business to make the owners happy. Today that happiness tends to come from a higher stock price. Companies don't think long term much, because Wall Street is about instant gratification.

It's really kind of sad watching it from inside.

 

[jamil]

Best I can find out there are about 2.2 million rail cars hauling chemicals a year, that's about 4-6% of all rail cars. You think that the locals would be able to keep up with and track each one?

I suppose you’ve read what I said and what I didn’t say.

 

[ditcherman]

First, I don't think that is what crony capitalism is.

Second, what you described though is how any large public company is run. The first people paid are the ones that have to care, the CEOs and other leadership. They are the ones that run the business to make the owners happy. Today that happiness tends to come from a higher stock price. Companies don't think long term much, because Wall Street is about instant gratification.

It's really kind of sad watching it from inside.

You are correct about my use of the term crony capitalism. That would be collusion between private and gov’t entities, at the least.

Not sure what it should be called, but my point was that the guy in charge of greasing the bearings and checking the brakes should be paid first, with more regard to the companies mission than to the stockholders return.
Granted many complications come in to play, and you could argue that the union grease monkey has turned into a lazy bum, as much as the Wall Street guy has turned into a mooch on the grease monkeys’ back.

Wish I had the answer, anything sounds painful.

I mean, we could always just burn it all down. Oh wait.

 

[Lmo1131]

Preventive maintenance and routine inspection go a long way to protecting right-of-way communities, but emergency response, or lack of it, is the culprit in this instance. And l don’t mean at the volunteer fire department /EMT level.

I live 7 miles down wind from Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant; I also work there. There is a county-wide siren network that is tested twice a year, city/county/state/ federal agencies conduct year ‘crisis’ coordination simulations. There is only one main Highway (US101) that would provide emergency access so evacuation pre-planning/training is critical.

When the reactor is starting to melt through the floor it’s too late to be trying to figure out who to call.

Granted , this is over-legislated Kommiefornia that l’m talking about, but any company that deals with hazardous material should be mandated to protect the public on a routine b
sis; meaning it shouldn’t be an Oh My God situation.

Probably too much to impose on free capital American stock holders.

 

[actaeon277]

Fox Guest Unloads on Pete Buttigieg for Shameful Train Derailment Comments​

 

[bwframe]

Ya can't even make this stuff up...

 

[actaeon277]

Pete B doesn't have a problem with train wrecks, because he himself is one.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I suppose you’ve read what I said and what I didn’t say.

I read what you said. Just giving my opinion. I agree it wouldn't necessarily be bad, just don't think it would do any good at least in most cases.

 

[bulldogg]

Fox Guest Unloads on Pete Buttigieg for Shameful Train Derailment Comments​

Yes as the rest he is a liar, says he has these type of problems here and fixed. He can’t even fix a pot hole. Another payed want a be.

 

[BugI02]

The thing that continues to bother me is, if it was a safe enough environment to use breaching charges on the cars with vinyl chloride, why wasn't that same environment safe enough to cool the cars with water until it would be safe to pump off the product instead of having an open air burn

I'm afraid the most likely answer is they were more worried about getting the tracks open again as quickly as possible than they were worried about anyone in harm's way

 

[Cameramonkey]

The thing that continues to bother me is, if it was a safe enough environment to use breaching charges on the cars with vinyl chloride, why wasn't that same environment safe enough to cool the cars with water until it would be safe to pump off the product instead of having an open air burn

I'm afraid the most likely answer is they were more worried about getting the tracks open again as quickly as possible than they were worried about anyone in harm's way

Getting a ROV or a team to quickly get in and out with small charges I would assume would be a lower risk to first responders. Failure to keep those tanks cool enough would be a huge problem. BLEVEs are no joke. And with tanks that big, you can kiss everything (and more importantly everyone) within a 1/4 mile goodbye

But you may also be correct.

 

[actaeon277]

The press is being 'aggressive and inappropriate'.

What?
Oh, I see. They finally get QUESTIONS, and they're not used to it.

 

[Leadeye]

The thing that continues to bother me is, if it was a safe enough environment to use breaching charges on the cars with vinyl chloride, why wasn't that same environment safe enough to cool the cars with water until it would be safe to pump off the product instead of having an open air burn

I'm afraid the most likely answer is they were more worried about getting the tracks open again as quickly as possible than they were worried about anyone in harm's way

It's really tough to get vinyl chloride down to where it's not going to evaporate very quickly at atmospheric pressure. Once the cars were broken open and started depressurizing it would be about like a propane tank emptying. Boiling point is below the freezing point of water and vapor pressure is very high.

I still think they made the right call to burn it as fast as it was coming out. Waiting and getting a thermobaric ignition after it was allowed to pool probably would have flattened that town and killed a lot of people including the guys trying to stop the discharge.

After the crash there really were no good outcomes, only ones less bad.