Trainers. How long does it take for stupid to set in

[Coach]

This is an example of why I avoid shooting with other people . The idea that you feel bad or should be corrected for having an unloaded gun with the action open and taking it back to put in its case just blows my mind.

Because the four rules do not matter? Because unloaded guns are safe? Because bringing the case to the gun is not possible or just not worth they effort?

Are you a believer in "good enough"?

 

[Expat]

Because the four rules do not matter? Because unloaded guns are safe? Because bringing the case to the gun is not possible or just not worth they effort?

Are you a believer in "good enough"?

Which rule did he violate? Maybe I am missing something. Nothing I read indicated the gun was ever pointed at anyone or anything. He didn’t put his finger in the trigger. He had a gun that he had assured was empty, had it locked back. I have to carry my guns to put them in a case at home all the time. Which of the 4 rules am I violating?
Rule One: All guns are always loaded.
Rule Two: Never let the muzzle cover anything which you are not willing to destroy.
Rule Three: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Rule Four: Always be sure of your target.

 

[Twangbanger]

I have seen first hand what you are talking about with trap shooters. I don't go there are a result.

You really have to watch out for the months of September-October. Registered Trapshooting has an excellent safety record going back 100 years. But most all ranges allow practice, and September is when the once-a-year "bird hunters" show up to give ol' Bessie a couple practice shells. You literally never see them before the end of August. I've had a loaded shotgun pointed at some part of my body, at distances ranging from 3~20 yards, not less than 5 times in 3 years. (The 3-yard one still makes my femoral artery throb just thinking about it. If I literally fell into the arms of a surgeon, there wouldn't have been enough time).

 

[Coach]

Which rule did he violate? Maybe I am missing something. Nothing I read indicated the gun was ever pointed at anyone or anything. He didn’t put his finger in the trigger. He had a gun that he had assured was empty, had it locked back. I have to carry my guns to put them in a case at home all the time. Which of the 4 rules am I violating?
Rule One: All guns are always loaded.
Rule Two: Never let the muzzle cover anything which you are not willing to destroy.
Rule Three: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Rule Four: Always be sure of your target.

If you are following them why does it matter if people are around? If you follow them what would the problem be? All guns are always loaded is rule one that you quote then you start talking about and unloaded gun. A gun he had assured was empty. That does not sound like following the four rules.

In the carry of your gun to the case what happens regarding Rule 2? Do you do it the same way you seem to handle rule 1?

 

[Expat]

If you are following them why does it matter if people are around? If you follow them what would the problem be? All guns are always loaded is rule one that you quote then you start talking about and unloaded gun. A gun he had assured was empty. That does not sound like following the four rules.

In the carry of your gun to the case what happens regarding Rule 2? Do you do it the same way you seem to handle rule 1?

I follow them all of the time. As to rule 1, this has been discussed to death on here. I clean my guns occasionally so, guess what, I determine they are not loaded. I would never stick a loaded gun in my range bag, but I have to carry them somehow. So I make sure it is empty and stick in my bag. Whether I do that 3 feet one way or another has nothing to do with the 4 rules. You seem to just be trying to be a dick which is the type of people I try to avoid. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Which rule did he violate? Maybe I am missing something. Nothing I read indicated the gun was ever pointed at anyone or anything. He didn’t put his finger in the trigger. He had a gun that he had assured was empty, had it locked back. I have to carry my guns to put them in a case at home all the time. Which of the 4 rules am I violating?
Rule One: All guns are always loaded.
Rule Two: Never let the muzzle cover anything which you are not willing to destroy.
Rule Three: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Rule Four: Always be sure of your target.

He violated rule 2, then rule 1. He flagged the line violating rule #2. After violating rule 2 he violated rule 1, as he was not treating guns as if they are loaded.

To go to the OP:

"I turned away from the firing line toward the back bench with a weapon in hand."

 

[Expat]

He violated rule 2, then rule 1. He flagged the line violating rule #2. After violating rule 2 he violated rule 1, as he was not treating guns as if they are loaded.

To go to the OP:

"I turned away from the firing line toward the back bench with a weapon in hand."

If he flagged the line then he was wrong in doing so. I didn't get that out of what he said.

 

[chezuki]

I follow them all of the time. As to rule 1, this has been discussed to death on here. I clean my guns occasionally so, guess what, I determine they are not loaded. I would never stick a loaded gun in my range bag, but I have to carry them somehow. So I make sure it is empty and stick in my bag. Whether I do that 3 feet one way or another has nothing to do with the 4 rules. You seem to just be trying to be a dick which is the type of people I try to avoid. Welcome to the ignore list.

Kinda sensitive eh?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Kinda sensitive eh?

No doubt. I think this is the first time I've ever seen anyone add Coach to the ignore list.

I'm sure he will be devastated. Anyone attending his next Concealed Carry Practice Match be sure to give him a hug.

Back OT, stupid can set in before you even leave the class. I was in a rather lengthy advanced defensive shooting class and toward the end of the day I started feeling fatigued and I came close to making several mistakes. The trainer was aware enough to politely suggest I stop shooting for a bit and sit down and take a break and eat/drink/rest. He was absolutely right in hindsight and I'm glad he did so. I was slightly annoyed at first, but within minutes I appreciated his "suggestion".

 

[Coach]

If he flagged the line then he was wrong in doing so. I didn't get that out of what he said.

I am wondering how many times you have done the same thing and not realized it.

 

[BugI02]

Coach, it also occurs to me that even if I had made no "technical violation" of the rules - firearm always pointed at the floor as I turned, never swept another portion of the line etc - that that still would not be the safest way to accomplish the task I was attempting. A ricochet off the floor or the back wall from an ND would be extremely dangerous in the crowded space. I am a four rules guy (not arguing it's just the way I was introduced to shooting) and I believe it is incumbent on all of us to maximize safety. Even if it wasn't a range rule, keeping the firearm pointed downrange while casing/uncasing is definitely the safest option and so I would say the spirit of the four rules would require that option. I have always felt the four rules' purpose was to minimize to the extent possible the danger during gun handling to all the things one doesn't intend to shoot while allowing the freedom of action to use lethal force when necessary, thus we should instinctively choose the most safe option. I most certainly did not, and was shocked by my unconscious level of complacency. Prior to this, if you had asked me I would have said I always handle firearms safely. Now I'm not so sanguine

 

[rhino]

Coach, it also occurs to me that even if I had made no "technical violation" of the rules - firearm always pointed at the floor as I turned, never swept another portion of the line etc - that that still would not be the safest way to accomplish the task I was attempting. A ricochet off the floor or the back wall from an ND would be extremely dangerous in the crowded space. I am a four rules guy (not arguing it's just the way I was introduced to shooting) and I believe it is incumbent on all of us to maximize safety. Even if it wasn't a range rule, keeping the firearm pointed downrange while casing/uncasing is definitely the safest option and so I would say the spirit of the four rules would require that option. I have always felt the four rules' purpose was to minimize to the extent possible the danger during gun handling to all the things one doesn't intend to shoot while allowing the freedom of action to use lethal force when necessary, thus we should instinctively choose the most safe option. I most certainly did not, and was shocked by my unconscious level of complacency. Prior to this, if you had asked me I would have said I always handle firearms safely. Now I'm not so sanguine

I've yet to meet someone who has not had some kind gun risk management lapse occasionally. We're not perfect! We can always remain vigilant and improve, though!

 

[Coach]

Coach, it also occurs to me that even if I had made no "technical violation" of the rules - firearm always pointed at the floor as I turned, never swept another portion of the line etc - that that still would not be the safest way to accomplish the task I was attempting. A ricochet off the floor or the back wall from an ND would be extremely dangerous in the crowded space. I am a four rules guy (not arguing it's just the way I was introduced to shooting) and I believe it is incumbent on all of us to maximize safety. Even if it wasn't a range rule, keeping the firearm pointed downrange while casing/uncasing is definitely the safest option and so I would say the spirit of the four rules would require that option. I have always felt the four rules' purpose was to minimize to the extent possible the danger during gun handling to all the things one doesn't intend to shoot while allowing the freedom of action to use lethal force when necessary, thus we should instinctively choose the most safe option. I most certainly did not, and was shocked by my unconscious level of complacency. Prior to this, if you had asked me I would have said I always handle firearms safely. Now I'm not so sanguine

My hat is off to you for realizing your lapse and working to do better . No one is perfect. I like the way you think.