It is the practice of "Proper" gun handling. You play like you practice. Simple as that.
I get it but seriously, we are a long way from kids playing cowboys and indians.
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Training AR for instructors? What are the options?
- Thread starter SmileDocHill
- Start date
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It is the practice of "Proper" gun handling. You play like you practice. Simple as that.
I get it but seriously, we are a long way from kids playing cowboys and indians.
So practicing disarming while A blue gun was a inch from my head... that person is not practicing proper gun handling. But that is how you learn to react.
Showing how how not to flag while sitting in the car... completely safe with a blue gun.
Blue gun is not a gun... doesn’t not have to be treated as a gun. because it is not one. That’s the advantage of a prop. You can practice with out the risks. Or show bad technique, or bad handling.... without putting something or someone in front of a real barrel.
still waiting for someone to show me someone getting shot by a blue gun....
I get it. But outside of that I also get it.
Just curious. If you have taught and the student learned the fundamentals thoroughly and has proven he practices the 4 basic rules before advancing to any progressive courses how does he sweep himself in a car or anywhere else for that matter? If he does, he simply has failed the first level. Like sweeping his arm while bagging. Or is that okay?
as I said earlier in this post I am glad some instructors use blue guns.
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Ha. Guess you only take basic NRA classes for your double barrel. Never been to an ECQC or VCQB. Had someone wrestle you while trying to get a gun out or wrestle you over a gun.
Every advanced course shows proper technique... and the good instructors also show what not to do, how not to take shortcuts. and common things they see...
Who says it can’t be used in a basic course. Showing how to not put a finger on the trigger to early or how to properly draw how to align sights... or showing what flagging is..... tell me how would you demonstrate flagging to a newbie... watch out for that finger gun.
you didn’t come out the womb knowing everything. People showed you how to do thing and what not to do your entire life. That is the purpose of a blue gun to show both the good and bad without the risk.
Change it to airsoft or utm and hell yeah.. four rules... but a blue gun is inert plastic... it’s job is training both good and bad. It can’t hurt you regardless what you do with it. It is not a gun. You don’t treat a remote like a gun... so why a hunk of plastic.... what about cookies shaped like a gun
still waiting on the blue gun death....
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It's no secret that I agree on this issue. Exactly zero people have been harmed by projectiles from inert, plastic training replicas (e.g. Blue Guns). Exactly zero people will ever be injured by projectiles from inert, plastic training replicas in the future because exactly zero projectiles will ever emerge from solid chunk of plastic. Inert, plastic training replicas are just that: inert. The entire reason they exist is to use them as props in ways that you cannot or should not use an actual firearm.
If the purpose at hand is to demonstrate proper risk management associated with handling firearms, then it makes sense in that context to handle them as you would a firearm, specifically for that reason: to teach those skills and how to reduce the probability of an unintentional discharge and minimize the consequences in the event an unintentional discharge occurs. However, in a gun safety context, it is equally reasonable to use an inert training replica to show examples of improper or bad gun handling.
If an inert training replica is used in other contexts, it should be used appropriately for those contexts. JollyMon's example of using them to practice disarms is an ideal example. If you think inert replicas must always be handled like guns, then you'll never be able to do any training or learning along those lines. You also can't use your finger or imagine that you're holding a gun, because you'd still have to handle both of those as you would a real gun.
The same would be true for practicing weapon retention. Or practicing using cover with someone downrange of you to tell you how much of your body is exposed. Etc., etc.
If the intent of using an inert, plastic training replica is to twirl it on your finger and you succeed, then you're probably going to Hell because someone, somewhere, at some point in time did a similar thing with an actual firearm and got hurt. Everyone who has ever pointed a "finger gun" is guilty of exactly the same crime and will also burn horribly in H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS. In fact, I would enjoy twirling one of my Blue Gun replicas for anyone who wants to watch, but I'd enjoy it even more doing it for someone who refuses to acknowledge that they are not firearms and cannot in any way fire a projectile and gets their panties in a twist over it.
rhino's added bonus: if you intend to use an inert replica to practice disarms, weapon retention, or anything else that may involve physical contact, it's a great idea to remove the trigger guard from the replica to avoid injury. Fingers find their way into those things all the time when you're "negotiating" over who gets possession of the plastic and it's super easy to put enough torque on them to cause painful injuries.
- INERT PLASTIC TRAINING REPLICAS ARE NOT FIREARMS.
- THEY EXIST SPECIFICALLY SO THAT THEY CAN BE USED AND HANDLED IN WAYS THAT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE, ILL-ADVISED, OR DANGEROUS TO USE AN ACTUAL FIREARM.
- THEY CANNOT PROPEL A PROJECTILE.
I think you are misinterpreting at least my explanation.
Blue guns are useful training tools that are actually mandatory for some training. The problem Jim is talking about is the horseplay and foolish "gun handling" outside of training scenarios with the inert training tools. This marginalizes them as "toys."
The blue gun training tool should be treated as a firearm. Be it in a training scenario to point at an "attacker" or have pointed at you as you describe.
When the inert training tool is not in training, it is inappropriate to treat it as if it were a toy to point at anything.
This is entertaining to say the least.
As referred to in post 16 I am not talking about advanced modules here. FoF, disarming, wrestling matches etc the inert objects has its place. However, again if you have to deal with flagging in an advanced class something is askew.
To make a point You can simulate unsafe gunhandling if you like but but I found a more positive way to eliminate the bad habit to start with on the fundamental level all the way through actually obtaining marksmanship with a real gun. Hands On.
Again, safe handling, good gun manipulation, actually improving shooting ability = no need for toys IMHO.
when the student qualifies for advance modules (not just enrollment fees) sky’s the limit for using all kinds of props, however I would stay away from sex toys.
Agreed
Just had a student today that moved here from Texas. Very very dangerous in his gun handling skills. Still a lot of work to do with this 45 year old male that used to work security around Houston. Interesting enough, he had security training through his employer, 10 hour nra basic pistol course, and the 8 hour classroom that the State of Texas required before he could buy a gun several years back. He had a lot of training with a blue gun and pencil and paper. He did however have 511 pants but it did not help in in handling the Glock 20 bought from the Texas dealer. After today he admitted that had he spent half his total time with real guns and real shooting he would not have bought this Model 20.
i realize that this bad is on him as he did not live up to the responsibility of putting into practice the material he was provided. He now is on his way to improvement and I will follow up from now on. Case in point, for its purpose of advanced training modules I am glad there is an inert tool to use. But when we rely on the toy in a boring classroom, sometimes in a careless presentation, we are on our way to a failed user. And again I am happy that if there is a careless or unconfident trainer out there (they make the news every once in awhile) I am glad he uses a blue gun.
Thanks to this forum for the medium to start the controversy that ends in everyone making the choices they desire to improve or tweak our processes.
i realize that this bad is on him as he did not live up to the responsibility of putting into practice the material he was provided. He now is on his way to improvement and I will follow up from now on. Case in point, for its purpose of advanced training modules I am glad there is an inert tool to use. But when we rely on the toy in a boring classroom, sometimes in a careless presentation, we are on our way to a failed user. And again I am happy that if there is a careless or unconfident trainer out there (they make the news every once in awhile) I am glad he uses a blue gun.
Thanks to this forum for the medium to start the controversy that ends in everyone making the choices they desire to improve or tweak our processes.
I pointed My flashlight at my dog this evening, trying to find him in the dark, I’m gomna miss that pup because I pointed a non firearm and now I am so inept I can’t tell the difference between a flashlight and a firearm
r.i.p doggo
r.i.p doggo
There are places and times (context) when a blue gun is exactly the thing that is needed and should be used. Using blue guns, simulators and other training devices do not substitute for putting rounds down range. You cannot learn to shoot in the classroom or watching video. Those things are important and can teach some things but there is no substitute for putting rounds down range. But their are also times for the classroom to be used.
Well this certainly got interesting.
Absolutely! The real message isn't about the blue guns, it's who and how they are used. Sound Familiar? I have no problem with responsible trainers using anything they want. Just like the NRA Cert does not make you a shooter, a blue gun does not make you a trainer.
This whole thing started because it was said earlier that a blue gun had to be handled the same way as a real firearm.
we already proven it doesn’t have to because it’s inert plastic, and it’s okay for said advanced modules.
So use a blue gun as you wish, point it at anything you wish, do whatever you wish with a blue gun. Because it’s not a gun it’s a chunk of plastic.
we already proven it doesn’t have to because it’s inert plastic, and it’s okay for said advanced modules.
So use a blue gun as you wish, point it at anything you wish, do whatever you wish with a blue gun. Because it’s not a gun it’s a chunk of plastic.
So use a blue gun as you wish, point it at anything you wish, do whatever you wish with a blue gun. Because it’s not a gun it’s a chunk of plastic.[/QUOTE]
Ok then. You probably will really freak out on my take with the unsafe and improper illustrations with some gun owners manuals and print ads.
Ok then. You probably will really freak out on my take with the unsafe and improper illustrations with some gun owners manuals and print ads.
