Training for violent attacks

[Shay]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYoqPpW5alo[/ame]

 

[the1kidd03]

lmao....advertisement/training such as this is going to get someone killed

rather than having your "armed attacker" stand there and wait for retaliation, as (no real criminal is going to do) give him an airsoft pistol or something which you can justify his counters as well as perform the intent to harm the individual....i.e. when the good guy reaches for his gun as slowly as he is, or simply pushes him away without disarming/disabling him...he will be pulling the trigger and in most cases shown the good guy would be shot in these scenarios, especially considering the "good guy" is not maintaining control of the weapon or performing incapacitating blows

also assuming the attacker will be directly in front of you is not preparing a student very well for real life

I don't mean to critique your business or sound like a know it all a$$ hole, but if you want to be a credible self defense instructor which prepares students for real world...then they should train "for real" ...and their counters should be swift and violent while maintaining positive control of the weapon.....the whole "work hard, play hard" concept...you should train HARD so that when the real situation happens it is not so hard on the individual..simply learning a couple "movie movements" isn't something to bet someone's life on IMO and not in the best interest of longevity of your business

 

[esrice]

lmao....advertisement/training such as this is going to get someone killed

I'm not exactly sure what is happening in the video, but it appears to be some kind of test where the instructor is looking strictly at technique, and therefore is going at 10% speed. I'm not familiar with a format like that-- maybe some INGO vets can better fill us in.

I don't mean to critique your business

That video isn't affiliated with Shay/Mindset Labs. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find more "realistic" training here in Indiana.

Typically Shay likes to posts videos such as this to get a discussion going here in the T&T forum.

 

[IndySSD]

In my (relatively limited compared to professional soldiers/LEO's/etc..) experience the best thing to train for violent attacks is your situational awareness and ability to recover from spontaneous and violent collisions of foreign objects into your cranium....

IE: Almost every time I've come under violent attack, sharp physical pain was the first indicator I had that things had escalated to a physical level. Thankfully I've got a thick skull and I'm pretty damn stubborn.

You can practice wrist lock techniques @ 10% speed all you want but IMO situational awareness and ability to recover mentally and physically from incoming damage are the first things people need..... "skills evaluations" like the one above are generally most useful for those who are pretty far along the "fighting experience" curve that are always looking for another "tool in the toolbox" so to say.

 

[MTC]

This is one of those times to recalibrate the sarcometer/satire detector.

That's not at all what Shay, or any other trainer I've met, teaches.

 

[KG1]

Yeah but they have a really cool name!

 

[Cwood]

rather than having your "armed attacker" stand there and wait for retaliation, as (no real criminal is going to do) give him an airsoft pistol or something which you can justify his counters as well as perform the intent to harm the individual....i.e. when the good guy reaches for his gun as slowly as he is, or simply pushes him away without disarming/disabling him...he will be pulling the trigger and in most cases shown the good guy would be shot in these scenarios, especially considering the "good guy" is not maintaining control of the weapon or performing incapacitating blows

Most classes start with the technique before starting adding in sims guns and training knives.

Some of those drills they ran are effective for being able to create "distance" between the attacker and you. The last thing you want to be in an encounter is tied up or on the ground.

 

[Steve MI]

ah yes the ninjas from detroit

 

[Shay]

ah yes the ninjas from detroit

I was wondering where you stole your material

 

[theweakerbrother]

Tactical Skills Level 3!?!? OMG!

 

[Lars]

That training looks hardcore. Where do I sign up?

 

[Lars]

^ Crap, I forgot my purple.....

 

[lovemachine]

That video isn't affiliated with Shay/Mindset Labs. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find more "realistic" training here in Indiana.

^^^Thats one reason I'm dying to take one of Shay's classes.

 

[Shay]

OK. I've been posting these videos for fun and to give folks here a glimpse into some of what other schools out there pass off as training. So now it's time to comment.

There's a saying that in order to be most effective, training needs to be Recent, Relevant and Realistic (the 3 R's).

Old training fades over time, so the Recent should be obvious.

Relevant means that not everybody is going to have a need for the same skills and tactics. The police, military and private citizens all have different needs and while there is some overlap, what serves one group well might be exactly opposite what the others need. There might be some debate on this one, but still, it really is another obvious point.

Realistic is the one where toes start to get stepped on. Just how do you make training realistic and still be safe? Well, some schools do this by eliminating all actual contact; only doing forms (kata or poomse) for instance. Or you can create "skills" that have little or no relevance in fighting. Board breaking and other feats of "skill" become the goal and not realistic training for fighting.

One of the better videos I've come across that explains what's wrong with the video I posted in the original post was made years ago by the owner of Straight Blast Gym. Yes, it's older, but the content has real value.

[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068450760833041053[/ame]

Traditional Martial Arts (TMA) are full of static drills, non-resisting "attackers" and dead patterns. So are most gun schools.

And THAT ladies and gentlemen is why Force on Force training is important. You can't just practice a series of dance moves that look good. You need to quickly get to the point where you train with aliveness. Realistic training gives you context and a true understanding of the application of a technique under stress. Too many people find out the hard way that when someone is trying to smash their face or shoot or stab them they aren't as prepared as they thought they were.

Make sure you are training with resistance. Don't be awed by flashy gun, knife or empty hand demonstrations. If you see something that looks compliant and choreographed ask yourself if you've ever seen a fight video that looked like what you just saw. Real fights are very dynamic. Your training needs to be too.

 

[KG1]

Excellent points Shay

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm not exactly sure what is happening in the video, but it appears to be some kind of test where the instructor is looking strictly at technique, and therefore is going at 10% speed. I'm not familiar with a format like that-- maybe some INGO vets can better fill us in.



That video isn't affiliated with Shay/Mindset Labs. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find more "realistic" training here in Indiana.

Typically Shay likes to posts videos such as this to get a discussion going here in the T&T forum.

Ah....thank you for the input, I'm not familiar with him or his courses.....the biggest problem I have is not maintaining positive control of the weapon in the video on most of the man's counters...the techniques used are dangerous and not necessarily as much as they should be for the aggressor

 

[the1kidd03]

excellent secondary video

 

[the1kidd03]

In my (relatively limited compared to professional soldiers/LEO's/etc..) experience the best thing to train for violent attacks is your situational awareness and ability to recover from spontaneous and violent collisions of foreign objects into your cranium....

IE: Almost every time I've come under violent attack, sharp physical pain was the first indicator I had that things had escalated to a physical level. Thankfully I've got a thick skull and I'm pretty damn stubborn.

You can practice wrist lock techniques @ 10% speed all you want but IMO situational awareness and ability to recover mentally and physically from incoming damage are the first things people need..... "skills evaluations" like the one above are generally most useful for those who are pretty far along the "fighting experience" curve that are always looking for another "tool in the toolbox" so to say.

You don't want to rely on your thick skull though....there are certain points in your head that if properly struck can/will kill you...as well as the rest of your body for that matter

 

[the1kidd03]

Most classes start with the technique before starting adding in sims guns and training knives.

Some of those drills they ran are effective for being able to create "distance" between the attacker and you. The last thing you want to be in an encounter is tied up or on the ground.

many do start of with technique...but speed tends to obscure your results so he should have been moving a little faster than this slow, well thought out movements....

he was creating distance between him and his "armed" attacker...and that's the one thing that the person without the gun DOES NOT want....and majority of close quarters fighting such as this will end up on the ground eventually at some point anyway unless one gets knocked out, or otherwise seriously wounded ...

especially with untrained persons...they get tired quickly and prefer to try to get to ground game and subconsciously think they will have a better chance on the ground

 

[the1kidd03]

Shay...do you have any videos of your actual classes....or website with them?