Trump keeps his word and Merkel (and WaPo) throws a hissy fit

[Mikey1911]

A further twist would be to base them on the eastern western border of Poland...

We should see if the Poles would allow our troops to be stationed near Gliwice, which in 1939 was “Gleiwitz” in Germany.

On 31 August 1939 Gleiwitz was the location of the SS false flag attack on a radio station that gave Adolf the “justification” (for public consumption, anyway) to attack Poland on 01 September 1939.

 

[Alamo]

That's gonna be a hit to their local economy.
I guess they shoulda thought of that.
Must not be used to a politician doing something.

Yes. Quote from article:

[FONT=&quot]Peter Beyer, a German politician and [/FONT]a key Merkel ally[FONT=&quot], called the planned U.S. troop withdrawal “completely unacceptable” to Germany. “It’s not just about 9,500 soldiers, but also their families, an estimated 20,000 Americans,” he added.[/FONT]

No more ka-ching if the Amis leave.


I was in Germany when the big draw down in US forces generally and especially in Germany began after the Wall fell. The Greens, of all people, started complaining and wanted the US to maintain the AFRTS radio system, because it was the only (legal) alternative to the government sponsored radio stations and it (AFRTS) was the first to start playing rock'n'roll in Germany.

At that same time I had a date with a Dutch girl, and during dinner we had a pretty lightweight conversation until somehow the topic of the drawdown came up. She told me, "I don't want you Americans to leave, you need to stay." I said, "Why, because we are so handsome and modest?" Wink wink nudge nudge. She said, "No, because you are the only ones that can control the Germans." I was floored. I said "why don't the Dutch and the other Western Europeans build up your defense forces and do it yourself?" Her answer was "We tried, twice. It didn't work." The Dutch, at least along the border, did not like or trust the Germans at all, and these were young people with no direct memory of WWII.

 

[oze]

A further twist would be to base them on the eastern western border of Poland...

I have relatives in SE Poland (near Rzeszów) that would love the presence of US troops in the neighborhood!

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Alamo]

It never gets old. While the rest of the country focuses on a street criminal, Trump keeps taking care of business.

Yes, I was thinking that Trump can use this get some other things done without a lot of fuss while the Dems are chasing the big shiny Molotov cocktail.

 

[actaeon277]

Yes. Quote from article:



No more ka-ching if the Amis leave.


I was in Germany when the big draw down in US forces generally and especially in Germany began after the Wall fell. The Greens, of all people, started complaining and wanted the US to maintain the AFRTS radio system, because it was the only (legal) alternative to the government sponsored radio stations and it (AFRTS) was the first to start playing rock'n'roll in Germany.

At that same time I had a date with a Dutch girl, and during dinner we had a pretty lightweight conversation until somehow the topic of the drawdown came up. She told me, "I don't want you Americans to leave, you need to stay." I said, "Why, because we are so handsome and modest?" Wink wink nudge nudge. She said, "No, because you are the only ones that can control the Germans." I was floored. I said "why don't the Dutch and the other Western Europeans build up your defense forces and do it yourself?" Her answer was "We tried, twice. It didn't work." The Dutch, at least along the border, did not like or trust the Germans at all, and these were young people with no direct memory of WWII.

Don't forget all the jobs the locals have at the bases.

 

[Mikey1911]

I have relatives in SE Poland (near Rzeszów) that would love the presence of US troops in the neighborhood!

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

My maternal grandmother was from Lesko, also in SE Poland. She survived WW1 and always referred to disease germs as “Germans”.

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

[video=youtube;SEllHMWkXEU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEllHMWkXEU[/video]

"So there's never, never a trace of red...."

 

[two70]

Ohhhh now she's mad about evil racist white supremacist American soldiers who support a white supremacist oppressive government exiting her country? Here I thought we were the devil and having American soldiers on your soil was always bad.

Funny how one's opinion changes when faced with the reality of actually receiving what one claimed they wanted.

A further twist would be to base them on the western border of Poland...

I like the way you think!

 

[OakRiver]

I was always amazed by Europe's attitude towards the US military. I always felt like many European states believed that any use of force was beneath them, and that they could contract out their self-defense to NATO and spend their NATO dues elsewhere. At the same time making snide comments about the US as the "world police".

The United States has guaranteed the peace, freedom, and liberty of her allies for decades now, and has done so with very little reward or respect. Germany is no different than that friend who keeps mooching off you, always promising to pay you back, but never does. The only real difference is that Germany has an attitude about it, and dares to look down at the people prepared to get their hands dirty for their sake. They expect us to come to their paid, pay the price in the lives of our men and women, and expend our nation's capital to protect our allies.

This action has not happened in a vacuum. Germany, and other member states falling behind in their obligations, have been warned about what the consequences of their repeated delinquency could be, and have been given the option to course correct. They have chosen not to do so, and are being made familiar with the consequences of their poor decisions. Germany would rather surrender their energy security by continuing to expand their relationship with Russia to supply gas, despite the concerns over the risk this poses, and surrender their communication security, and ours, by relying on Huawei and their Chinese CCP backers.

 

[Alamo]

Don't forget all the jobs the locals have at the bases.

Oh yes. The physical structures and services on a NATO base in Germany I worked at were maintained by a logistics wing that was almost entirely German. One day the StoV (Standortverwaltung, site maintenance or premises administration, like CE on an American base) sent a crew of three guys to put paneling in my boss's office. Small office, about 10'x6'. They arrived about 0930, put paneling on three and a half walls, left the one panel that would have finished the project leaning against the wall, and broke for lunch at about 1030, 1045. I went the all-ranks club about 1130 (keeping in mind that I was at work by 0730 and the three workmen were sitting at a table with three beers in front of them. Pretty sure those were not the first three either. They were still there when I left, and I don't think they finished the project until the next day. The German OR-9 (E-9 equivalent) in my office told me the StoV hired the guys that the local construction companies wouldn't touch. Where are those guys going to work if the Amis leave?

To be fair we had a lot of good German workers on base, but there were some gems among them.

 

[OakRiver]

https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/08/its-high-time-germany-fund-and-fix-its-military/159149/
It’s High Time for Germany to Fund, and Fix, Its Military

Just another free-rider like the Saudis. They'll hold our coat for us

This is the same Germany military that in 2007 published a report that said 40% of their soldiers were too fat to fight: https://www.thelocal.de/20080304/10483

If you don't think your own country is worth defending, why do you think others should defend it for you?

 

[OakRiver]

He has told them for three years that the US Sugar T.. was going to go dry. How much more advance notice do you need?

They do love their bureaucracy, so maybe we didn't fill out the official notice in triplicate.

Or they aren't used to dealing with a leader who keeps his word.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I'll go with the latter. NONE of us are used to dealing with a leader who keeps his word.

 

[Leadeye]

Yes. Quote from article:



No more ka-ching if the Amis leave.


I was in Germany when the big draw down in US forces generally and especially in Germany began after the Wall fell. The Greens, of all people, started complaining and wanted the US to maintain the AFRTS radio system, because it was the only (legal) alternative to the government sponsored radio stations and it (AFRTS) was the first to start playing rock'n'roll in Germany.

At that same time I had a date with a Dutch girl, and during dinner we had a pretty lightweight conversation until somehow the topic of the drawdown came up. She told me, "I don't want you Americans to leave, you need to stay." I said, "Why, because we are so handsome and modest?" Wink wink nudge nudge. She said, "No, because you are the only ones that can control the Germans." I was floored. I said "why don't the Dutch and the other Western Europeans build up your defense forces and do it yourself?" Her answer was "We tried, twice. It didn't work." The Dutch, at least along the border, did not like or trust the Germans at all, and these were young people with no direct memory of WWII.

The amount of times I've heard leadership refer to something as "unacceptable" seems endless over the years. It's a key indicator that they are unhappy about something, have no clue about what to do, but expect you to fix it.

 

[OakRiver]

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...rce=trib&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook

"U.S. Secretary of Defense Mark Esper announced Wednesday the U.S. is set to withdraw around 6,400 troops from Germany and shift move nearly 5,600 troops from Germany to other countries in Europe.

Esper’s announcement comes amid calls from President Donald Trump to reduce the number of troops in Germany. The reduction of approximately 11,900 troops from Germany will reduce the number of U.S. troops in the country from around 36,000 to 24,000."

 

[tsm]

Why keep any troops in Germany? Can’t they afford to defend themselves?

 

[OakRiver]

Why keep any troops in Germany? Can’t they afford to defend themselves?

Perhaps not given their history of underpaying their NATO contributions.

 

[BugI02]

Why keep any troops in Germany? Can’t they afford to defend themselves?

Perhaps not given their history of underpaying their NATO contributions.

It's not just NATO they shortchange. I don't quite remember the exact details, so I'm not willing to hunt up the cite right now (but it should be out there). It was written up, in a publication primarily concerned with defense issues, that as Germany was preparing to assume the rotating position at the head of the NATO reactionary force, their readiness in many areas of their armed forces (attack aircraft, helicopters, tanks, naval patrol etc) was near or in some cases below 50%

They don't want to spend money on their own military readiness and are mortgaging their energy security to Russia with Nordstream 2. Merkel and her party are a disaster and will be the death of them someday

 

[Alamo]

Why keep any troops in Germany? Can’t they afford to defend themselves?

Most people did not want to say this out loud, but for a good portion of the second half of the 20th century, their neighbors did not really want a Germany with a really effective military. The Russkies certainly provided a serious threat, despite what the Greenies and other lefties believed, but they also provided a convenient reason to keep a serious military presence (US) in Germany while it rebuilt its economy (which it did much more efficiently that many of its former enemies). Integrating european armies into the NATO command structure made sense in forming a coordinate Allied response to the Red Army's presence (but did not prevent the French from throwing a monkey wrench into it), but I believe there was a strong unspoken goal of particularly keeping Germany's military under control of somebody besides the Germans.

A lot has changed since then, though. The threat of invasion has moved farther east, and we have new allies there, more aligned with our interests than present-day Germany. If we are going to keep US troops abroad to aid our allies (and I am good with this), there are better places for them to be than Germany.

 

[mike8170]

Why keep any troops in Germany? Can’t they afford to defend themselves?

Because Germany WILL try it again someday. Honestly, I think the time is ripe for Germany to become a major player again with the right leadership and allocation of resources due to the state of the E.U. And, IMO, we need to keep some bases in other countries for threat deterrent and training. I loved my deployment to Hoenfels when my National Guard company was assigned to the 4th Infantry Regiment just for the training aspect. Plus having bases in other countries allows service member to interact with other cultures that are not trying to kill you. Know what I mean?