Tuesday, November 3, 2020

[CampingJosh]

This is idealistic.

My response was more toward the framing of the question than actually to answering it.

We're 11 months out from the election. If we have to declare now that we're going to vote for a bad (R) just because he's not a (D), then we're not a constituency that either side actually needs to try to win.

And again, more gun control has happened while "our guy" has been in office than in the previous 8 years with the so-called "most anti-gun president ever."

Sometimes it seems like our defense gives up less yardage than our offense loses.

 

[jamil]

My response was more toward the framing of the question than actually to answering it.

We're 11 months out from the election. If we have to declare now that we're going to vote for a bad (R) just because he's not a (D), then we're not a constituency that either side actually needs to try to win.

And again, more gun control has happened while "our guy" has been in office than in the previous 8 years with the so-called "most anti-gun president ever."

Sometimes it seems like our defense gives up less yardage than our offense loses.

As it stands now, I’ll hold my nose. There isn’t another candidate who Trump is actually worse than. That doesn’t mean that I’m committed to an internet partisan poll. It’s what I think at the moment. Maybe a better candidate could join the race. Not likely to happen on the D side. The few sane-ish candidates they have no chance, BECAUSE they’re not insane enough. No way a better candidate could get anywhere in a primary.

 

[BugI02]

As it stands now, I’ll hold my nose. There isn’t another candidate who Trump is actually worse than. That doesn’t mean that I’m committed to an internet partisan poll. It’s what I think at the moment. Maybe a better candidate could join the race. Not likely to happen on the D side. The few sane-ish candidates they have no chance, BECAUSE they’re not insane enough. No way a better candidate could get anywhere in a primary.

And you need to further consider that even if, say, a Jim Webb did join the race; what could he do with the steaming pile that is the Democratic party/progressive left even should he get elected. The horse-trading with the party's internal factions in order to get anything done would have him forced to back programs and policies that we would likely find abhorrent

It is a rare candidate indeed, and a rare set of circumstances, that would allow any other candidate to go against as many orthodoxies of his own party as Trump has without every day becoming the Ides of March

 

[2A_Tom]

We're 11 months out from the election. If we have to declare now that we're going to vote for a bad (R) just because he's not a (D), then we're not a constituency that either side actually needs to try to win.

What exactly do you see as something that would win you over. Oh, I know! The Dem candidate that promises to repeal NFA and '68.

We all know that that will happen.

 

[CampingJosh]

What exactly do you see as something that would win you over. Oh, I know! The Dem candidate that promises to repeal NFA and '68.

We all know that that will happen.

How about the (R) making some progress on the Hearing Protection Act? That could win me over.

You are asking for loyalty to a political party that doesn't care about the 2A. Why?

 

[2A_Tom]

There is no way that can be done unless the (R) retake the House.

Or do you think it could be done before the election.

If you think that being anti-republican will get the dems to do it, you are delusional.

It is more likely that LGBTQ+ will embrace Chic-fil-A.

 

[BugI02]

How about the (R) making some progress on the Hearing Protection Act? That could win me over.

You are asking for loyalty to a political party that doesn't care about the 2A. Why?

Naivete or willful blindness [flips coin]

He is asking for loyalty to a party that doesn't think 2A is the most important concern that it should have, but is certainly far friendlier to gun owner's priorities then anything else on offer. That party arguably feels remaking the federal judiciary, having a booming economy going into the next election , better border security, rule of law etc etc to be a higher priority. That may not play that well on INGO where gun related issues are always #1, but I can think of no rational argument that any of the other announced candidates would be anything other than a disaster for those same rights. Encouraging a third party challenge from a right-leaning candidate will be Perot redux, and whatever Dem winds up in office will be far more of a problem than anything Trump has done or will do. The argument that we can rely on conservatives in congress to hold off the worst tendencies of a Democratic administration are equally dangerous and immature. We would forever be just one Sandy Hook from New Zealand style legislation from the party that believes no good disaster should go to waste. Trump is not a 2A patriot, as witnessed by the cavalier manner in which he has led on 2A related issues, but his first instinct is not to gut the 2nd at every opportunity

Do not misunderstand me; if you think a third party challenge is the way to go, have at it. Just don't expect the idea to be popular except on the left

 

[HoughMade]

It looks like the narrative of a binary choice is alive and well.

None of the above.

Add your realistic 3rd party (or 4th or 5th, or 6th) candidate and we'll see if the poll can be edited.

 

[phylodog]

Why does half of INGO still focus on how it could be worse instead of demanding that it be better?

I'd say I fall solidly into this mentality and if I had to explain why I'd say it is because I have zero real expectation that things will ever change for the better. Due to the nature of our republic (which I'm thankful for) it is going to take a long time to bottom out because each side has a different approach to destroying everything.

 

[2A_Tom]

You must spread some Reputation around to those that do not really deserve it before giving it to BugI02 again.

B b b b b b b but, we have to repeal NFA and '68, or we might as well vote Democrat.

 

[jamil]

How about the (R) making some progress on the Hearing Protection Act? That could win me over.

You are asking for loyalty to a political party that doesn't care about the 2A. Why?

Just because you vote for a person from a particular party doesn’t mean you are or have to be loyal to that party.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am not a one issue voter. The Republicans are far from 100% in line with my interests.

The Democrats are nearly 100% opposed to my interests.

None of the current third parties are viable choices.

All I can do is try to get someone that is not like my current Dem Rep that ignores the Constitution.

 

[CampingJosh]

Just because you vote for a person from a particular party doesn’t mean you are or have to be loyal to that party.

I agree with your point in general.

However, what is the purpose of this particular poll, worded as it is, if not to shame all INGO members who don't support Trump?

 

[CampingJosh]

Do not misunderstand me; if you think a third party challenge is the way to go, have at it. Just don't expect the idea to be popular except on the left

I'm not asking for a third party.

The congressional Republicans seem to be lined up behind Trump. I want better Republicans than that.

 

[CampingJosh]

There is no way that can be done unless the (R) retake the House.

Or do you think it could be done before the election.

So if the Republicans have control of the House, Senate, and White House, and such legislation is introduced, I should expect that it will fly through into law, right?

That's why, if I look back, I should see that so many of these things went through in 2017 and 2018.

 

[femurphy77]

Definitely not one of "them".




Just like last time.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'd say I fall solidly into this mentality and if I had to explain why I'd say it is because I have zero real expectation that things will ever change for the better. Due to the nature of our republic (which I'm thankful for) it is going to take a long time to bottom out because each side has a different approach to destroying everything.

I can feel that.

I don't think either party cares about us. They all care about their own importance, power, and wealth.

But if they want my vote to help maintain their position, they could at least consider throwing us some scraps.

 

[bwframe]

Perfect is the enemy of good

 

[CampingJosh]

Perfect is the enemy of good

Not when you are placing the order. Order exactly what you want, then be happy enough with good.

Don't order good and be happy enough with slow bad.

 

[2A_Tom]

I'm not asking for a third party.

The congressional Republicans seem to be lined up behind Trump. I want better Republicans than that.

You want Republicans that act like Schumer, Pelosi and Schiff?

So if the Republicans have control of the House, Senate, and White House, and such legislation is introduced, I should expect that it will fly through into law, right?

That's why, if I look back, I should see that so many of these things went through in 2017 and 2018.

I did not say it will.

Is there any chance with the Democrats in charge of anything? Please answer.

If we bang the drum loud enough there is a chance that we can shame the limp spined Republicans to do it.