U.S. official: More than two dozen U.S. deaths in Afghan copter crash

[Expat]

Though I, too, am inclined to think there is no particular conspiracy in this case, how does your intervention help reveal the truth? It shuts down conversation, makes a judgment about a person, and fails to enumerate the reasons against conspiratorial thinking. Opinions are no good unless they are backed up by sound reasoning.

In INGO, frequently people are just expressing their opinions rather than making a case for them. This means that participating in this forum is tantamount to a form of socialization, because it is about sharing, not about putting beliefs to the test of the mind. If we want INGO to be a social club, then keep expressing and forming some sort of vague consensus. (Look at all the threads that rag on the "antis." They are just a gun owner's version of touchy-feely "safe space," not places to take a hard look at the heavy responsibility of gun ownership and gun politics.) If we want INGO to be a place of real discussion, we must allow for well-articulated, reasoned dissent. And we must reciprocate with reason in equal measure.

Da Bing

 

[ATOMonkey]

Not a conspiracy, just reckless... I am always incredibly saddened and outraged at the same time, because these kinds of things are almost always avoidable with better planning.

This isn't the first time a chopper full of SEALs has gone down in Afghanistan, and likely won't be the last, if people keep treating SEALs like they're bullet proof.

QRF for OP Redwing, 8 SEALS 8 Nightstalkers KIA when infilling to a hot LZ.

OP Anaconda, Takur Ghar, 3 choppers effectively shot down trying to land on the same peak.

When something the size of a bus is hovering about 30 feet off the ground, or less, it's not that hard to hit.

The SEALs are the best of the best when it comes to assualting a target, but that doesn't mean they always need to just be dropped in the middle of the ****.

Like I tell my brother. Dead warriors, while very brave, and highly ineffective.

Just one man's opinion...

 

[flatlander]

We are diminished by the loss of these warriors, who unlike many of the people on this forum, were willing to do more than just run their mouths and took the fight to the enemy.
RIP and my condolences to their famlies.

Bob

 

[flatlander]

The above is disgraceful to the very core. You Sir should be ashamed

+1000
It is better to be thought an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Bob

 

[INRanger]

Its unfortunate not necessarily reckless. You cant really plan for every possibility. In my experience if the initial QRF proves to not be adequate for the task at hand every swinging dick will be on the first thing available to take them where their comrades need them.(no info on if this is the case or not but experience tells me it was) It may not be the perfect world arm-chair commando solution but with troops in contact you'd ride a bike if thats what you've got. The conspiracy nuts truly make my skin crawl.

 

[Phil502]

Why are these guys on Chinooks and not Blackhawks, why put them all together in one bird anyway? Is this unusual?

 

[Cwood]

Why are these guys on Chinooks and not Blackhawks, why put them all together in one bird anyway? Is this unusual?

They have been using Chinooks because of the altitude and payload abilities are greater then the Blackhawks. You can't get that much men and gear up to most of the altitudes they fight at using Blackhawks.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Though I, too, am inclined to think there is no particular conspiracy in this case, how does your intervention help reveal the truth? It shuts down conversation, makes a judgment about a person, and fails to enumerate the reasons against conspiratorial thinking. Opinions are no good unless they are backed up by sound reasoning...

Reveal the truth? The truth, as close as any of us are going to get to it, is that a helicopter went down and a bunch of brave soldiers died. I don't have the ability to go investigate it personally, nor, I think, do any of us, and even if we do, we would likely be bound by security clearances and unable to "reveal the truth".

Your comment about my "making judgment about a person" is false. I stated my opinion about his posting style. In light of the comment, though, I will give my "judgment" of the person: I think that Rambone is a strong Constitutionalist and very dedicated to the principles that made this country great. I think that his posting style tends to alienate some and to draw others and I think that he says what he says and does what he does with the best of intentions and with the purest of motives.

The other comment I made about INGO not being a news aggregate site is also completely true, though some people seem to want to change that. Do note, please, that none of those people are either moderators or the administrator/owner of the site, however.

My own opinion is much the same as many who have posted here: the loss of the soldiers is tragic and needless, but as for the crash...Freud once said that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ATOMonkey]

They have been using Chinooks because of the altitude and payload abilities are greater then the Blackhawks. You can't get that much men and gear up to most of the altitudes they fight at using Blackhawks.

Bingo!

One 47 will carry the whole QRF. Helos are in short supply. We don't have enough in the field, and of those in the field, it's hard to keep them airworthy.

No one would put 3 or 4 blackhawks on QRF.

It's a huge risk flying any helo into a hot LZ. Things must have been really really really bad to take a risk like that, or it was just bad planning, which happens frequently on inter-service ops. Not saying that was the case here, just that it's been known to happen.