Union Busting or Consumer Demand? Winchester moves from IL to MISS

[melensdad]

So the company asked the unions for a 7 year wage freeze. Sounds unreasonable? Perhaps to some. But from the standpoint of most shooters here on INGO it strikes me that YOU are the reason these union people are out of jobs.

Here is how I see it. YOU won't pay a penny more for ammo than you have to pay, so the reality is the LOWEST COST AMMO is the consumer's choice when it comes to bulk product. And bulk ammo is the most popular ammo. If wages are too high, taxes are too high, regulations are too tight then the company can't make a profit. Further WOLF, S&B, Fiocchi, Herters and a dozen other lower priced competitors offer cheaper stuff than Winchester 'white box' so what is Winchester to do?

Well it asked for, and got, concessions from Illinois, but it also needed concessions from labor. Illinois labor costs are higher than Mississippi labor costs, even in small town semi-rural East Alton, IL. The union wouldn't give it, it says that they believed that Winchester/Olin was profitable (but did not provide proof) so they didn't give in, despite the fact that YOU won't pay a penny more for union made American ammo versus imported slave labor produced ammo.

1000 jobs are now going to be lost in Illinois, while 1000 jobs will be gained in Mississippi.

Story here => Olin moving East Alton plant to Mississippi | abc7chicago.com
and here => Olin moving 1,000 East Alton jobs to Mississippi, points finger at union | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO

 

[Joe Williams]

Congrats to the folks in MS willing to work jobs at market rate. The state could really use new jobs, and sounds like their willingness to work for reasonable rates has paid off for them. I'm sure they are pleased and excited at the opportunity to provide a good living for their families.

Since their labor and experience are worth so much, I'm sure the folks in IL who didn't want the jobs at the wages offered will be able to find good jobs at the rates they want. Well, hopefully.

 

[Life Member]

Hay Joe what the hell is market rate?

 

[Que]

Well, at least the people in Mississippi will be able to purchase and use their own product. It sucks for Illinois, but at least they didn't take the jobs to Mexico, where they could have produced their product even cheaper. The only mistake I would say they made is not coming here to Indiana. They would have been backed by a supportive Governor and also had a greater income per capita of which to take advantage. If they can sell their product at the price I saw on a thread last night, they will definitely get my business.

 

[Expat]

Also since Illinois is anti-gun, I hope any and all gun and ammo makers would move out. Why should that state collect so much tax revenue from gun sales.

 

[mrjarrell]

Well, at least the people in Mississippi will be able to purchase and use their own product. It sucks for Illinois, but at least they didn't take the jobs to Mexico, where they could have produced their product even cheaper. The only mistake I would say they made is not coming here to Indiana. They would have been backed by a supportive Governor and also had a greater income per capita of which to take advantage. If they can sell their product at the price I saw on a thread last night, they will definitely get my business.

The governor of Mississippi obviously made them a better deal than Mitch could have. Add in a lower cost to do business, taxes and other incentives and Mississippi (and the South in general) are better places to do business. Just ask the car companies that have moved there in recent years.

 

[sj kahr k40]

It's possible that part of the reason the plant is moving to Oxford is because there is already a Winchester factory in Oxford

 

[Life Member]

The global economy will be the death of the standard of living in this country!!! Don't help it along!!

 

[Joe Williams]

Hay Joe what the hell is market rate?

What the employer can get people to work for them for.

 

[ATF Consumer]

So the company asked the unions for a 7 year wage freeze. Sounds unreasonable? Perhaps to some. But from the standpoint of most shooters here on INGO it strikes me that YOU are the reason these union people are out of jobs.

Here is how I see it. YOU won't pay a penny more for ammo than you have to pay, so the reality is the LOWEST COST AMMO is the consumer's choice when it comes to bulk product. And bulk ammo is the most popular ammo. If wages are too high, taxes are too high, regulations are too tight then the company can't make a profit. Further WOLF, S&B, Fiocchi, Herters and a dozen other lower priced competitors offer cheaper stuff than Winchester 'white box' so what is Winchester to do?

Well it asked for, and got, concessions from Illinois, but it also needed concessions from labor. Illinois labor costs are higher than Mississippi labor costs, even in small town semi-rural East Alton, IL. The union wouldn't give it, it says that they believed that Winchester/Olin was profitable (but did not provide proof) so they didn't give in, despite the fact that YOU won't pay a penny more for union made American ammo versus imported slave labor produced ammo.

1000 jobs are now going to be lost in Illinois, while 1000 jobs will be gained in Mississippi.

Story here => Olin moving East Alton plant to Mississippi | abc7chicago.com
and here => Olin moving 1,000 East Alton jobs to Mississippi, points finger at union | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO

The term 'slave labor' is way over the top to describe overseas products...sounds like something a Democrat would say to describe our minimum wage workers. I can bet you none of the workers feel like slaves...they are probably very appreciative to have jobs.

 

[Joe Williams]

The global economy will be the death of the standard of living in this country!!! Don't help it along!!

You do know that MS is part of this country, right? Why shouldn't they get good jobs if the folks in IL don't want them, or don't think they are good jobs?

 

[Life Member]

Come on man, you would'nt work for what they make.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Come on man, you would'nt work for what they make.

Someone obviously is and does...

 

[Joe Williams]

Come on man, you would'nt work for what they make.

Maybe, maybe not. Apparently, the folks in MS do. In fact, they are so happy with Winchester as an employer they are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of gaining more Winchester jobs.

 

[melensdad]

Come on man, you would'nt work for what they make.

Why not?

If they can get a good job at a reasonable wage why not take it? And reasonable wage varies by locale because cost of housing/living is lower in some areas than others.

I've never understood the concept of not working at all versus work and earning something.

 

[Life Member]

So were in a race to the bottom. You win!!

 

[Expat]

So were in a race to the bottom. You win!!

I assume you always pay for the higher priced items in the stores.

 

[melensdad]

So were in a race to the bottom. You win!!

WTF? No. How about the choice between earning a living for yourself and starving on unemployment because you chased the jobs to Mexico, China or Pakistan?

 

[Que]

It's possible that part of the reason the plant is moving to Oxford is because there is already a Winchester factory in Oxford

I think it's possible that the deal was done before they even announced the possibility of moving. Why not build upon what they already have and save money?

 

[ATF Consumer]

So were in a race to the bottom. You win!!

You must be a strong supporter of Keynesian economics.