Unions! Hilarious!

[infidel]

People are not a commodity or resource to be used up and thrown away. If that is how you feel YOU are the communist. YOU are the one that is causing the problems in the world and in this country.

That's exactly what people are in the business world, especially weak people. Why would you reward someone that is not worthy? People that aren't fit to survive in the business world are going to be "used up and thrown away". That's how it works.

Don't like to put forth the effort? You're getting thrown off the assembly line.

Have a bad business plan? You're money is going to be used up and you will possibly be nothing when it's said and done.

Have a good business, but like rewarding people that do not add to your business, but rather hinder it with demands of being treated equal to people superior to them? I guess you don't really have a good business then...

Successful businesses is not a human relations course. Business is about making as much money you can off of people.




You are only as good as the work you do.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I've never advocated paying someone for not doing their job and not doing it well. I believe in a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I read as much as I could stand to before I had to go hurl. You commies make me sick. Literally.

I'm entitled? Yeah, I'm freakin entitled. What am I entitled to, you ask? What I earned through my education, investment and industry. Not what I was able to extort because I belong to a thugocracy.

If you can't do crap you get paid crap. If you won't do crap you get paid less than crap. Pure economics. Fletch is a lot better at explaining it than I am. I just call it the law of crap for crap. That's just the way it works. It's been like that for 14,000 years. Will be like that for another 14,000 years.

So all you did was whine why you're an underachiever but you think you deserve what I have. You don't. You never will, until you too choose to be an over achiever.

I would go on all night, but I'm going to burst a blood vessel if I keep thinking about this, and you flat aren't worth it.

BTW, welcome new guy.

You get so twisted because someone doesn't see the world the same way you do and your best is to call them a communist.

Thanks for the warm welcome, showershoe.

 

[22lr]

Hey I need the Union to shop up and force my boss to let us join. I only make piece work (averaging $20 an hour), I have to choose my own schedule, and I don't even have to arrive on work on time as long as I stay late and finish the work. Did I mention I have to work with people who know my first name and go shooting with me on the weekends, how awful. Gees im getting ripped off here, were is my Union rep? (sarcasm implied)











I love my non-union job!

Edit: I should add that im not making fun of the good contributions Unions have made in the past. But paying temps so you can protest Walmart is just place freaking nuts.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I, too, love my non-union job. But I do see the writing on the wall. 90% of our hourly union workers are gone, the rest forced into 50% pay cuts and loss of benefits. The benefits for us non-union people are getting trimmed even more.

 

[22lr]

I, too, love my non-union job. But I do see the writing on the wall. 90% of our hourly union workers are gone, the rest forced into 50% pay cuts and loss of benefits. The benefits for us non-union people are getting trimmed even more.

I hear that. Im just lucky to have a Airforce Commission lined up as soon as I graduate. Id be scared sick to be looking for a job in this economy. Jobs can be found, but id hate to be out there looking. Unions still have a use but again in referance to that clip, thats just plain freaking crazy.

 

[evilblackrifle]

WHOA!

Guys, lets slow down.

Arthur Dent is new here. Why not give him the same warm welcome that you gave me. I love this site. I've met more friends on this site than other gun sites that I'm on. So, Arthur, please accept my apologies for what you've experienced so far. Through no fault of your own, you seem to have jumped in on a thread that is a hot button topic for so many of us.

We're accomplishing nothing by arguing. This thread has deep roots for so many of us, for and against the issue of unions. I'm flatly against unions, and I'll tell you why. Historically, Unions had a place in this country to protect workers. 8 hours/day is fair, benefits are fair, wages are fair, 40hrs/week is fair. I understand Unions fought for these things for all of us through the tough times to create the workplace protection laws that we have now. There are now Federal laws in place that are designed to protect the employee from unfair treatment in the workplace. Look what OSHA is doing and has done. Other countries do not have the same protections that we do here in the US.

We can continue this thread until the coming of Jesus Christ. We are all here because we have one thing in common: we are a FAMILY of shooters and hunters. I say FAMILY because of the types of people I've met on this board so far. I've had a few people slam me here, but for the most part, lots of people have helped me out here. They've helped me deal with my most recent job loss. Someone here is even re-roofing my house because its destroyed, and I don't have the money to pay him to do it because I lost my job. He is under no obligation to do anything of the sort, but I am so very grateful to him. He is doing this because we're FAMILY. Maybe not by blood, but by what I call "life passion". Based on the family I was born and raised in, I'd help someone on this board out before I'd help an immediate family member by blood. I was raised in a very anti-gun household, and I will tell you from experience that gun owners as a whole (there are few azzholes [spelled that way to prevent censorship] out there that have no business being around guns) are a very caring, decent, group of individuals.

You may disagree with me here, but I think its time we put this thread to rest. We all have reasons, for and against, unions. Look what its done: we are taking someone with only 10 posts who, for all we know hates us. Lets give Arthur a true INGO welcome that was given to me just recently when I joined up here. So, Arthur, on behalf of everyone here, let me welcome you to INGO. If you have any questions, or need anything at anytime, feel free to PM me, and I'll help you out any way I can.

Have a great day everyone, and God Bless.

-Erick

 

[tradertator]

 

[Fletch]

I had a long post prepared, but screw it. I don't even agree with the "historically, unions were necessary, but..." argument. I believe it confuses correlation with causation, and we have modern-day examples in places like China, India, and Korea where wages are rising and conditions improving without union involvement. It's all because of a critical economic fact that everyone ignores: just as workers compete for jobs, companies compete for labor. It's as plain as the $9/hour sign in the window of some McDonalds restaurants, but everyone's too busy stroking the egos of a band of criminals who used violence to get what they wanted to notice.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I, too, love my non-union job. But I do see the writing on the wall. 90% of our hourly union workers are gone, the rest forced into 50% pay cuts and loss of benefits. The benefits for us non-union people are getting trimmed even more.

We've had this discussion here before, but maybe you weren't around for it.

Why are union jobs going away and hourly union workers disappearing (except in government jobs)? Because they have priced themselves out of the market.

We exist in a global economy where in many countries the hourly wage can be reckoned in pennies. When they produce the same products as we do (textiles, clothing, shoes), their products can be sold more cheaply than ours can. The biggest single cost of most products is the labor cost, so if our labor costs are more for a given product than elsewhere, we aren't as competitive. If we can't compete with lower prices, we can't stay in business. And businesses, if you didn't forget, are in business to make a profit - that is, make more money than they spend - for their owners and investors. If they can't do that, why stay in business?

Unions used to consistantly provide a superior product, compared to non-union-produced products; that trained workforce was one of their selling points (and to be fair, some unions still provide that level of expertise - electricians, plumbers, masons come to mind), but they often are more concerned with their perks and pay than the quality of the product they produce and they tend to see the company they work for as an adversary rather than a business partner which they must assist in making a profit so that the business will be strong, expand, and hire more workers.

When I was a teenager, I worked a summer job on the old Illinois Central railroad as a locomotive fireman. It was a union non-job; I didn't really do anything worth what I was getting paid, but the railroad had to have a "locomotive fireman" on board each train, even though the job had been obsolete for 50 years. That's wasting money and that railroad is no longer in business.

Over the years I watched with interest as more than once airline pilot unions dragged their companies down to insolvency because they weren't willing to make pay concessions when the airlines were losing money hand-over-fist. I watched it happen three times (Eastern Air Lines, Pan Am Airlines, and Continental Air Lines). Even then, I joined with the guys I worked with at a commercial helicopter company (non-union) and refused to change my 7-day on/7-day off schedule for a 5/2 schedule during the recession of 1982 and we all got laid off for our trouble.

Human nature says we all want to keep what we have and do better, but often we don't take into consideration that the other guy wants to do the same and if we work at cross purposes we all lose.

Unions COULD learn to cooperate with their companies and get the best wage they can for the product they make, but I fear their mentality won't allow them to do that. That being so, their numbers will continue to dwindle in favor of non-union workers who will be willing to work for less, produce more, and make a profit for their company, whether it is here in the States or overseas...

 

[Fletch]

Unions COULD learn to cooperate with their companies and get the best wage they can for the product they make, but I fear their mentality won't allow them to do that.

My company is like a team. We have a heirarchy; there's the quarterback, the captain, the manager, the coach, the towel boy, etc., but we're all on the same team and we're all working toward the same goal.

From my perspective, a union comes into that arrangement and tells the linemen that everyone else is working for the other side. Then they wonder why they start looking more and more like the Lions and less like a Superbowl franchise.

 

[irishfan]

Unions have their place and can still be a viable part of the workforce BUT the union leaders need to realize that a living wage can be achieved without it being an abusive wage and work enviornment. In a lot of cases it looks like weak management is as much or even greater problem than the union endorsed contract. I did work in a union place for a while and IF you broke the rules you could easily be fired if management wanted to. The supervisors would nail somebody only to have their boss or general foreman not back them up and terminate or suspend the individual. The contract language didn't give them the protection you hear about in the auto plants but the bosses would never back the supervisors in handing down discipline. Honestly, what can a union do if a worker is caught drinking on the job or ghost hours and is terminated today? If this was 1960 then a wildcat strike was a threat but today that is illegal so what can the union really do that makes them so scary?

 

[Fletch]

...what can the union really do that makes them so scary?

The same thing ticks and leeches can do that makes them so scary.

 

[irishfan]

The same thing ticks and leeches can do that makes them so scary.

Seriously, give me some examples that they can do today that strong management can't prevent? I really would like to know.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Unions have their place and can still be a viable part of the workforce BUT the union leaders need to realize that a living wage can be achieved without it being an abusive wage and work enviornment. In a lot of cases it looks like weak management is as much or even greater problem than the union endorsed contract. I did work in a union place for a while and IF you broke the rules you could easily be fired if management wanted to. The supervisors would nail somebody only to have their boss or general foreman not back them up and terminate or suspend the individual. The contract language didn't give them the protection you hear about in the auto plants but the bosses would never back the supervisors in handing down discipline. Honestly, what can a union do if a worker is caught drinking on the job or ghost hours and is terminated today? If this was 1960 then a wildcat strike was a threat but today that is illegal so what can the union really do that makes them so scary?

I'm sorry irishfan, but unions are not now, nor have they ever had a place in business and they can never be a viable part of the workforce. You have to actually work to be part of the workforce.

Historically, the institution of the union was born due to worker safety being ignored, sometimes intentionally so, by industry. Government probably should have had a role in defining a safe workplace, but was in industry's pocket. Even to the extent that police forces augmented private detectives in suppressing worker uprisings.

The union was born to prevent these abuses to workers. Was the union necessary? No. But government wouldn't do it's job, and in the vacuum created by not only inaction but hostility the worker's struggle was born.

Now at about the same time unions were taking shape and hold in America, Karl Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto. I don't know if you've ever read his book, but it's interesting that his take on class struggle and warfare and the union position are in lockstep with one another.

The union movement today is nothing more that the realization of Marx' dream. Nothing more, nothing less. When I say that unions are communist organizations and those that espouse union philosophy are communists, this is not petty name-calling. It is fact.

 

[hornadylnl]

The union movement today is nothing more that the realization of Marx' dream. Nothing more, nothing less. When I say that unions are communist organizations and those that espouse union philosophy are communists, this is not petty name-calling. It is fact.

One need only to read the Solidarity magazine to see this.

 

[BigMatt]

The thing is that unions weren't always like this. My grandfather retired from the UAW in the 80's and he says that they weren't like that then. He made a modest wage, worked a part time job on the side and retired at a reasonable age.

Now they are making outrageous salaries, only working half the time and complaining all the way.

I recently worked for a union mechanical contractor in Dallas, TX and they have the same mentality down there as the unions of the 80's. If it needs to be done, they do it and there isn't any complaining. If a pipefitter needs to sweep the floor, he sweeps the floor.

I am a firm believer the closer you get to New York/Jersey, and Chicago, the worse the unions get and the UAW is much worse than the skilled trades.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Building trades in Chicago are very strong, and even extend their reach to non-union crews.

For instance, they have determined that if anyone works loner than a 10 hour shift, then it will lead to fewer jobs. (which is true, but not a bad thing). So, no work begins before 7 AM and no work goes on after 5 PM. If you do, expect to see someone on your job site in a big rat suit, or harassing people as they leave the job site.

On our way into work we'd see truck loads of people just sitting drinking coffee waiting for the 7 AM whistle to blow.