unions protest outside Bosma's House

[MrYesterday]

OK, fine.
I rewrote your post to represent the reality I have observed, not what you should have said.
If you have always behaved professionally and been nothing but civil, great.
BUT, unions have traditionally behaved as the unions picketing Bosma's house are doing now. Democrats will shut down the legislature and unions will threaten opponents, either openly or subtlely.
Birds of a feather...

You people are talking like this is common in every union. As a member of a pipeline union I can tell you in 10 years I've not heard a single story of violent protest, or coercion. Members who step outside the boundaries are required to hand in their books. My issue is that you are treating us like we're all related. You judge us all by the stigma has been attached to a few. How do you know I haven't spoken out? You're putting words in my mouth again. I'm just as openly against the kind of protests going on right now with the people I work with. Should I contact the news paper, or local news with my non-violent views? Why don't you contact the news? Stop lumping us all together, it's ignorant, and not at all fair.

 

[GBuck]

IBTL.

 

[MrYesterday]

If card check is such a wonderful idea, then perhaps we should be doing away with the "secret ballots" in the civic elections too, eh?

I didn't say I was for it. I stand behind secret ballots. Just stating my opinion. As for goons busting heads, we have no "muscle" in our union. I've never seen a union goon, I guess I just hired on to a good union without knowing what a bad one would be like.

 

[J_Wales]

I didn't say I was for it. I stand behind secret ballots. Just stating my opinion. As for goons busting heads, we have no "muscle" in our union. I've never seen a union goon, I guess I just hired on to a good union without knowing what a bad one would be like.

So again,to confirm, in the example I outlined employees are forced to pay union dues even if against their will.

 

[MrYesterday]

So again,to confirm, in the example I outlined employees are forced to pay union dues even if against their will.

Yes, and if the majority of the employees in a shop decided they wanted to ban smoking in the shop people would be forced to quit smoking there, too. I don't see how that is any different than any other situation where a majority vote changes the working environment.

 

[Doug]

You people are talking like this is common in every union. As a member of a pipeline union I can tell you in 10 years I've not heard a single story of violent protest, or coercion. Members who step outside the boundaries are required to hand in their books. My issue is that you are treating us like we're all related. You judge us all by the stigma has been attached to a few. How do you know I haven't spoken out? You're putting words in my mouth again. I'm just as openly against the kind of protests going on right now with the people I work with. Should I contact the news paper, or local news with my non-violent views? Why don't you contact the news? Stop lumping us all together, it's ignorant, and not at all fair.

OK, I apologize for assuming all union members are in favor of violence and intimidation to achieve their political ends just because of news reports of union actions and my personal observation of the same.
I apologize for thinking no union members have spoken out against union violence just because I have NEVER read anything anywhere (other than your post) to indicate that a union member disapproved.
I have spoken out against union abuses, but I am not a union member and never have been. Unions claim their actions are justified and boast about them. If union members disapprove, they should speak up, just as responsible gun owners should and do speak out against criminal and unsafe misuse of firearms.

 

[J_Wales]

Yes, and if the majority of the employees in a shop decided they wanted to ban smoking in the shop people would be forced to quit smoking there, too. I don't see how that is any different than any other situation where a majority vote changes the working environment.

Because if I enter into a nonunion shop that is later unionized my property is taken from me by force or I am forced to find alternative employment.

That is much different than a smoking policy where I simply refrain from doing something to retain my employment. Such a policy does not strip my property. It is a condition of employment issued by MY EMPLOYER; they guy that owns the shop.

 

[Doug]

Yes, and if the majority of the employees in a shop decided they wanted to ban smoking in the shop people would be forced to quit smoking there, too. I don't see how that is any different than any other situation where a majority vote changes the working environment.

And if a majority elects representatives who vote for Right to Work legislation, it should pass and all should accept it.

 

[sbsg2005]

I find it funny that if this was a bunch of 2A activists assembling to protect our 2A rights yoy all would be praising them for taking advantage of their right to assemble peacefully. But since its a bunch of union members you all critisize them for it. What wrong with the unions trying to protect their rights. If you don't want to pay dues then go somewhere else. You pay people for services all the time. Should they not have the right to collect for the services they perform for the bargining unit they represent. Federal law states the unions have to represent all union and non union memebers in the bargining unit equally. So non union members should have to pay just like union members. If you don't want to pay find a job in a non union shop or move into middle managment.

 

[Doug]

I wonder if the protesters have a permit to block that street the way they are doing? Have they provided for proper sanitary and security? Are they in violation of any noise ordinances?

After all...fair is fair, right? The laws that apply to everybody else that wants to block city streets, impede traffic, disrupt the peaceful enjoyment of other peoples' property, possibly create fire and police issues for, let's say, a pro-life or tea-party gathering does apply to labor protesters too....right?

 

[MrYesterday]

I apologize for thinking no union members have spoken out against union violence just because I have NEVER read anything anywhere (other than your post) to indicate that a union member disapproved.

I've spoken out on several occasions, but since I side against the ignorance, violence, and greed it's not nearly as newsworthy as the stories of sensationalistic drama that people prefer to read about.

Because if I enter into a nonunion shop that is later unionized my property is taken from me by force or I am forced to find alternative employment.

Yes, one case you're NOT doing something to retain your employment. In the other case you're making an extra $100-$200+ a week, better benefits, and retirement, and asked to pay $25-$50 a month for it...
You're making extra money, so the only thing you have to do is NOT put $50 of that extra money into your account, instead send it to a union hall.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just speaking from an average union member's point of view, since the other union members on this board are scared to say anything in their own defense.

 

[purd002]

I find it funny that if this was a bunch of 2A activists assembling to protect our 2A rights yoy all would be praising them for taking advantage of their right to assemble peacefully. But since its a bunch of union members you all critisize them for it. What wrong with the unions trying to protect their rights. If you don't want to pay dues then go somewhere else. You pay people for services all the time. Should they not have the right to collect for the services they perform for the bargining unit they represent. Federal law states the unions have to represent all union and non union memebers in the bargining unit equally. So non union members should have to pay just like union members. If you don't want to pay find a job in a non union shop or move into middle managment.

It stops being peaceful and starts becoming intimidation when you bus in these people and drop them off at his private residence. Keep it in the statehouse where it belongs. Anything beyond that is purely meant to intimidate.

 

[hooky]

In the other case you're making an extra $100-$200+ a week, better benefits, and retirement, and asked to pay $25-$50 a month for it...
You're making extra money, so the only thing you have to do is NOT put $50 of that extra money into your account, instead send it to a union hall.

That's a tremendous amount of value received in return for a meager payout. I'm sure that your union has nothing to worry about. Why on earth would anyone opt out?

 

[MrYesterday]

sbsg2005, I'm a union member, and I think what they're doing is ridiculous, and I wouldn't stand for it either. But if people were to have any other type of assembly (either 2a, pro-life, ect) on my private property I wouldn't be condoning it either. Protests should never be taken to private residences, only public property and jobsites.

 

[Doug]

I find it funny that if this was a bunch of 2A activists assembling to protect our 2A rights yoy all would be praising them for taking advantage of their right to assemble peacefully. But since its a bunch of union members you all critisize them for it. What wrong with the unions trying to protect their rights. If you don't want to pay dues then go somewhere else. You pay people for services all the time. Should they not have the right to collect for the services they perform for the bargining unit they represent. Federal law states the unions have to represent all union and non union memebers in the bargining unit equally. So non union members should have to pay just like union members. If you don't want to pay find a job in a non union shop or move into middle managment.

I have never seen or read about any Tea Party or 2nd. Ammendment protest outside any individual's house.
This protest is done when the protesters KNOW Bosma is not there. They are obviously trying to intimidate his family and threaten him through them.
I will condemn ANY AND ALL protests that target families.

 

[J_Wales]

I've spoken out on several occasions, but since I side against the ignorance, violence, and greed it's not nearly as newsworthy as the stories of sensationalistic drama that people prefer to read about.


Yes, one case you're NOT doing something to retain your employment. In the other case you're making an extra $100-$200+ a week, better benefits, and retirement, and asked to pay $25-$50 a month for it...
You're making extra money, so the only thing you have to do is NOT put $50 of that extra money into your account, instead send it to a union hall.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just speaking from an average union member's point of view, since the other union members on this board are scared to say anything in their own defense.

Maybe. Maybe not. Are the union members at the GM stamping plant that no longer have a job because the union would not accept the terms of the new ownership thus forcing the closure of the plant getting paid better and receiving better benefits than people that are working?

I understand you are not trying to change anybody's mind. I'm not either. Just trying to hash through issues.

 

[MrYesterday]

No one was forced into that situation though. Everyone that hires on at a car manufacturer's factory know's they're joining a union, and that there is a chance for things like that to happen. I know that at any point I could be out of a job if the company I work for does not abide by union guidelines. It sucks, but I'm aware it could happen.

 

[sbsg2005]

I am a union member also and while I don't condone what they are doing they are just doing what they have the right to do. You will not catch me there but I have been to the state house.
The only reason we have not seen a tea party or second ammendment protest go this far is because they have yet to take a vote on weather or not to strip us of our rights.

 

[J_Wales]

After Right to Work passes, you are free to continue to organize, join and support your unions.

pax tecum

 

[MrYesterday]

they are just doing what they have the right to do.

They have no right to be on that man's property.