University/campus carry now?

[Indy317]

While discussing carrying at a library, it sounds like it might be possible to now carry on college campuses once SB292 becomes law. Here is my thinking on why this is:

Chapter 11.1. Local Regulation of Firearms, Ammunition, and Firearm Accessories

Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC 3-5-2-38).

IC 3-5-2-38 "Political subdivision"
Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity.(My underline emphasis may include at least some universities and colleges).
Sec. 3. Except as provided in section 5 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(2) the ownership, possession, use, lawful discharge, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
(4) any other matter pertaining to or relating to firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories.

There are a few exceptions in Section 5 that may, at certain times, apply. Overall, I didn't see any clear exemption for university or college property.

(6) the enactment or enforcement of a provision prohibiting or restricting the intentional display of a firearm at a public meeting

I couldn't find a definition for "public meeting," though I did find something about public meetings in general. There is a lot of text, so I will just post a link. I could see universities try to use the "we have two trustees here meeting,, so you can't have a gun displayed." Indiana Code 5-14-1.5


(10) the promoters or organizers of an event occurring on property leased from a political subdivision or municipal corporation from:
(A) establishing, at the promoter's or organizer's own discretion, rules of conduct or admission upon which attendance at or participation in an event is conditioned; or
(B) the implementation or enforcement of rules of conduct or admission in connection with the event by a political subdivision or municipal corporation;

As noted earlier, part of the definition of political subdivision is "or other type of local governmental corporate entity." So you go over to Title 21 you find this:

IC 21-20-2
Chapter 2. Creation
IC 21-20-2-1
Recognition as university of the state
Sec. 1. Indiana University is recognized as the university of the state.
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.261.

IC 21-20-2-2
Board; body corporate
Sec. 2. The board of trustees is a body politic.

IC 21-23-2
Chapter 2. Creation
IC 21-23-2-1
Approval of federal act; location of college
Sec. 1. The college contemplated and provided by the Act of Congress, approved July 2, 1862, entitled "An act donating public lands to the several states and territories which may provide colleges for the benefit of agriculture and the mechanic arts," is created a body corporate, under the name of "The Trustees of the Indiana Agricultural College" and located in Tippecanoe County, at the point determined before the first day of January, 1870, by a majority vote of the trustees of the Indiana Agricultural College. The faith of the state is pledged that the location so made shall be permanent.
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.264.

IC 21-23-2-2
Name of institution
Sec. 2. In consideration of the:
(1) donation by John Purdue, amounting to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars ($150,000); and
(2) the further donation of one hundred (100) acres of land appurtenant to the state educational institution; and
on condition that the donation be made effectual, the state educational institution after the date of its location as determined under section 1 of this chapter shall have the name and style of "Purdue University". The faith of the state is pledged that the name and style shall be the permanent designation of the state educational institution, without addition or modification.
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.264.

IC 21-23-2-3
Name of trustees
Sec. 3. After the date of the location of Purdue University, the corporate name of the trustees of the Indiana Agricultural College shall be "The Trustees of Purdue University".
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.264.

IC 21-19-2
Chapter 2. Creation
IC 21-19-2-1
Name of institution
Sec. 1. The state educational institution located and established at Muncie, Indiana, is perpetuated under the name of "Ball State University".
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.260.

IC 21-19-2-2
Name of board of trustees
Sec. 2. The board of trustees of Ball State University is designated the "Ball State University Board of Trustees".
As added by P.L.2-2007, SEC.260.

IC 21-19-2-3
Board; body corporate
Sec. 3. The board of trustees constitutes a perpetual body corporate.

So, I wonder if universities would be considered types of local governmental corporate entities? There is no definition in IC 3-5-2 for the term of "local government." It appears universities are corporate entities, but I'm not sure if they would be viewed as "local governmental." The term government implies governing of the people. In some ways, universities and colleges do this because they are public corporate entities, yet they can govern the behavior of the public while on their property, their jurisdiction so to speak.

 

[Rookie]

So are you saying/wondering that Indiana university is a local governmental corporate entity?

 

[Indy317]

So are you saying/wondering that Indiana university is a local governmental corporate entity?

I'm wondering if any of the state funded universities are, given the use of the word "corporate" in those laws that basically create the university. IU has the term "corporate" in IC 21-20-2-2's title, but not in the text. The IC code pertaining to Purdue has the word "corporate" in two different sections.

I've never cared for the use of the word "corporation" in any government entity. To me, corporations are totally private entities, not entities that are funded with any % of direct tax dollar infusion.

I should also point out that the IC defines "political subdivisions" in various titles. At least one specifically list post-secondary universities. The law however specifically choose a title which doesn't specifically list colleges and universities. Not sure if that was by design or not.

 

[cositc]

you have all ways been able to carry at colleges in the state of indiana just not k-12 sb292 dose not do any thing to colleges.

 

[Scutter01]

you have all ways been able to carry at colleges in the state of indiana just not k-12 sb292 dose not do any thing to colleges.

Universities have never been off-limits except by administrative policy.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).

 

[Bill of Rights]

Universities have never been off-limits except by administrative policy.

In and of themselves, no, but IIRC, some of them have a K-12 (or a daycare) on the college campus. It will be interesting to see if this new law affects them or not (in areas other than where the daycare, etc. is.)

This may just be how we get the universities and colleges on-board... if this law is in place and there are no incidents. OTOH, we will need to be very aware of next year's introduced bills... I'm quite certain that the universities will be looking to carve out an exception for themselves.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eldirector]

I believe the question is: "Are these publicly-funded Universities actually political subdivisions, and their policies are null and void as of July 1st"?

I agree that it is perfectly legal to carry there now, but also voiding their anti-2A policy would be a major win for us law-abiding citizens.

 

[melensdad]

Universities have never been off-limits except by administrative policy.

YUP, I've carried on the Purdue (Lafayette) campus many times. But I am not a student or employee of the university. They can ask me to leave, but I'm still legally allowed to protect myself.

 

[cosermann]

...I agree that it is perfectly legal to carry there now, but also voiding their anti-2A policy would be a major win for us law-abiding citizens.

And a major win for the employees of said institutions (which number in the 10s of thousands).

Practically, the large universities function as small cities/governmental units (even if this legalese-language is eventually shown not to apply to them) with their own police departments, housing, parks/rec., libraries, power generation, etc.

 

[Indy317]

Universities have never been off-limits except by administrative policy.

I don't know of one Indiana university/college that allows visitors to carry firearms. By default they have been "off-limits." Obviously, not having search zones, they wouldn't know until someone sees someone packing and contacts those in power. The fact they can, at least before, legally require you to leave open to the public, public property pretty much means they are "off-limits," at least to me. I'm just wondering if the new law would void their ability to require people who are doing nothing wrong, to leave.

 

[Hammerhead]

Here's what you forget. Policy does not equal law. I've carried on Purdue campus. I've carried on IUPUC campus. I don't actually hang around on IU campus, but I've carried in Bloomington very near campus and around downtown.

I will carry on any college campus in this state because I'm not attached in any way to the school, and they can go pound sand with their policies. There is no law saying I can not carry.

Now, there are few buildings on a university's campus that I might need to enter and have business in. Sidewalks are public domain, even on campus. But I will not fret over the "you'll get expelled or fired" policies that only apply to students or faculty.

YMMV.

 

[CarmelHP]

I believe the question is: "Are these publicly-funded Universities actually political subdivisions, and their policies are null and void as of July 1st"?

I agree that it is perfectly legal to carry there now, but also voiding their anti-2A policy would be a major win for us law-abiding citizens.

Good question. Walk around IU's motor pool and you'll plates saying "MUNICIPALLY OWNED" on their vehicles. Sue IU under adverse possession and they'll defend that they have immunity as a political subdivision. Look in the I.C. and they are formed as state agencies. BUT, try to hold them to sunshine laws or anything else and they'll dig in their heels and say they're not state. They just like to use the "state" nameplate when it gives them immunity and put it behind they're back when it doesn't.