US soldiers pose for photos with dead Afghan bombers, media frenzy to ensue

[hornadylnl]

Again, can cops get their pictures taken with dead bad guys after a shoot out?

 

[J_Wales]

Since religion is supposedly verboten, I will not not reply.

My question is in regards to two men.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[rambone]

Again, can cops get their pictures taken with dead bad guys after a shoot out?

Just like a hunter who caught his prey.

Documenting the job.

How can you ask him to kill suspects and not enjoy it?

Its just dead meat.

 

[strahd71]

Again, can cops get their pictures taken with dead bad guys after a shoot out?

they do have dash cams.............

jake

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Whom illustrated, demonstrated, and lived the strongest model for individual liberty and the individual responsibility that accompanied it?

Jesus or Mohammed?

I can't answer your question because I don't know where you're heading with it. I suspect Mohammed's concept of being a "slave to Allah" would disqualify him by what I understand as your definitions of individual liberty and responsibility, but I could be wrong.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

In the main, we want our warfighters to follow the ROE set out by their superiors so as to reinforce military discipline and the concept of military subservience to civilian control because these are core values of our military culture.

There are many aspects to winning an armed conflict; disheartening the enemy through military defeat, the use of propaganda to lessen support for the enemy and increase support for your side, gaining allies and support while separating the enemy from his allies and support, etc. "Winning hearts and minds", when incorporated into a campaign strategy, is a LONG TERM strategy intended for a long term commitment to a conflict. As far as I can tell, it's only chance of success is when the "cultural battleground" is understood well enough - or is close enough to your own to be understandable to the troops so that mutually exclusive cultural memes don't interfere with the ability to relate to the natives.

The problem(s) with raising a fuss (at the civilian oversight level) over such things as these photos are that 1) they merely serve to amplify enemy attempts to use them as propaganda against us (See! Even THEY know they're a bunch of animals!), 2) it actually DECREASES "order and discipline" among the warfighters - because they're much more concerned with their survival and their buddies' survival than worried about placating the bastards who're trying to kill them every time they get the chance, and 3) because such behavior is fairly innocuous in itself and can (and should) be dealt with quietly on the company or battalion command level without resorting to media histrionics and without creating resentment among the ranks of the warfighters.

 

[Ken H]

Just takes our NEWS MEDIA down another notch, in my eyes.. and they can't afford to get much lower

 

[stealseal]

Encouragement to our Solders

This is sad, our brothers in arms, are trained to just obey orders no matter how it eats at their moral code. Our men and woman of the military need someone to see the signs of their dis-connection with life in general and help them to cope with the horrors of war.

May we never forget to be thankful for their sacrifice, keep them in our prayers, and always lend a word of encouragement (even when bad judgment is made).

 

[EvilBlackGun]

My first-hand experience vs your opinion.

I have the pics, but they'll never be posted. It's cathartic for me to see them once in a while and remember how they happened, how I killed the enemy and posed on the bodies. How long were you in 'Nam or Irak, may I ask? Are you a veteran of any hot campaign? Don't tell a warrior how to act. At least not in person. No battle ends at the last round fired. Speak only for yourself, and make sure you tag it as merely YOUR opinion. You ain't been there or done that. Leadership was way in the rear, doing a Flying Fook. I was on point. EBG (New, micro-posters, THANKS for the moral support. There is no moral support on-point.)

That's an exercise of some really poor judgment on the part of the soldiers. I cannot imagine all the **** they have gone through on the ground but I think it speaks poorly of our leadership overextending our soldiers past the point of making good judgments.

The editors at the LA Times are idiots if they think they can publish any of these photos without further aggravating Afghan terrorists.

LA Times story with photos

 

[duffman0286]

I have the pics, but they'll never be posted. It's cathartic for me to see them once in a while and remember how they happened, how I killed the enemy and posed on the bodies. How long were you in 'Nam or Irak, may I ask? Are you a veteran of any hot campaign? Don't tell a warrior how to act. At least not in person. No battle ends at the last round fired. Speak only for yourself, and make sure you tag it as merely YOUR opinion. You ain't been there or done that. Leadership was way in the rear, doing a Flying Fook. I was on point. EBG (New, micro-posters, THANKS for the moral support. There is no moral support on-point.)

+1 if you have never been there don't judge...i have some as well from Iraq... for me it still brings back some tough times but it also serves as a reminder of what iv lost, what is important in my life and what i want to achieve out of life ... Im sorry guys and gals things happen over there your not gonna like it comes with the job just be thankful people like these protect you... I will not judge these people!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This is sad, our brothers in arms, are trained to just obey orders no matter how it eats at their moral code. Our men and woman of the military need someone to see the signs of their dis-connection with life in general and help them to cope with the horrors of war.

May we never forget to be thankful for their sacrifice, keep them in our prayers, and always lend a word of encouragement (even when bad judgment is made).

I disagree. Military personnel, especially nowadays, are taught they must obey the laws of armed conflict and disobey any unlawful order which conflicts with those laws. The "fundamental disconnect" is because killing is a foreign activity to most of us and the stresses involved in fighting an enemy whose concept of warfare is "barbarous" in our eyes (and to our culture) on the level he MUST be fought, by necessity introduces confliction and seeming barbarity to our own conduct of warfare.

To an extent, the black humor that exists in the military and spurs on some of the "deplorable" conduct of some troops, exists in any dangerous profession. While I was flying commercial helicopters on the Gulf Coast, I happened to watch the liftoff of the Challenger and its subsequent destruction. All of us who saw it were dumbstricken, but an hour later, I heard my first "Challenger Disaster" joke over the local Unicom. As pilots subject to the whims of weather, machinery, and all sorts of errors which can be fatally unforgiving, most of us adopted black humor as a coping mechanism; not out of any disrespect, but in the knowledge that - on some level - it could have been us dying suddenly.

This is essentially the position of the warfighter in combat; death or mutilation lie in wait for the wary and the unwary, the quick and the slow, and you never know what piece of metal is out there with your name on it. Those who can't find humor and stress relief in their situations, end up unable to cope with their situation. Some of those get help and get better, and more often than we'd like, the only way some of them can get away from that stress is to end their life. I'd rather see a thousand pictures of soldiers goofing off around dead bodies than see warfighters so regimented and serious that the only way they can cope is to eat their gun barrel.

 

[ipswervy]

I don't get it, we have rules we have to fight wars by against an enemy that has no rules for war. How in the hell do you win if your foe doesn't play by the rules? What has happen since the bombing of innocent people with nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (hope I spelled those right), ruthless killing seems to be what gets the message across, the taliban seem to enjoy decapitating, burning and dragging our servce men and volunteers in the streets. I say we need more pictures and videos of what we can do to show them we can play the game with no rules. When we wake up and realize its the only way, we'll realize we won't be there for the next 20yrs wasting lives and money. You can sit down and talk all you want to a crazy person and never get any results until you smack them in the head.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I don't get it, we have rules we have to fight wars by against an enemy that has no rules for war. How in the hell do you win if your foe doesn't play by the rules? What has happen since the bombing of innocent people with nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (hope I spelled those right), ruthless killing seems to be what gets the message across, the taliban seem to enjoy decapitating, burning and dragging our servce men and volunteers in the streets. I say we need more pictures and videos of what we can do to show them we can play the game with no rules. When we wake up and realize its the only way, we'll realize we won't be there for the next 20yrs wasting lives and money. You can sit down and talk all you want to a crazy person and never get any results until you smack them in the head.

WWII was the last "total war" where civilians were considered adjuncts to the military effort. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were manufacturing centers and it was only the frightful effects of the heretofore unknown "atom bomb" that convinced the Japanese to surrender.

You win wars by convincing the other side that he can't win. Our military strategy and tactics are dictated by the limits set upon them by the civilian leadership. The POLITICAL restraints on this conflict are dictated by the world political climate and our unwillingness to spit in the rest of the world's eyes. On the other hand, the military strategies and tactics which have been employed are designed to accomplish the political objectives as well as possible within the limitations set forth by the laws of armed conflict and the geopolitical situation.

To an extent, it doesn't help our political goals for the military to resort to the kinds of abuses our enemies take for granted, and doing so would certainly be more damaging to good order and discipline within our own forces than would any subsequent minor gains against the enemy.

To put it plainly: We aren't in a total war; we're in a pacification campaign. We shouldn't be trying to pacify these people; it isn't going to work in the time we've allotted. But to have our troops torture and mutilate their enemies and their civilian supporters in an attempt to win the victory would do more damage to us than it would to them, and since we don't want to stay there permanently, it would be wasted effort all around.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have the pics, but they'll never be posted. It's cathartic for me to see them once in a while and remember how they happened, how I killed the enemy and posed on the bodies. How long were you in 'Nam or Irak, may I ask? Are you a veteran of any hot campaign? Don't tell a warrior how to act. At least not in person. No battle ends at the last round fired. Speak only for yourself, and make sure you tag it as merely YOUR opinion. You ain't been there or done that. Leadership was way in the rear, doing a Flying Fook. I was on point. EBG (New, micro-posters, THANKS for the moral support. There is no moral support on-point.)

No one says you can't take picture, but if your dumb enough to have them end up on the freaking word wide web, then there's a problem.
I don't have issues with soldiers recording their trophies, I have a problem with them bragging about it and looking like blood thirsty fools.

 

[Tydeeh22]

I guess Afghan noncombatants who just want to live a peaceful life should be glad your finger's not on the button.

Why "level the place" exactly? This would serve US interests in what way...?

whilst i care much less after a long night, do you really think the Arab emirates would STOP selling oil to us?.. wrong. in war they just blow the pumps with a grenade. Fields of fiery tar flowed for hundreds of yards. you couldnt see your hand in front of your face, let alone breathe. and dont kid yourself. the people leasing (peaceful lives) are in some way connected to someone that is involved in the resistance. im tired of these debates. perhaps ill argue more later on why this world is full of people that have outsmarted Darwinism and shouldnt have.

 

[Expat]

No one says you can't take picture, but if your dumb enough to have them end up on the freaking word wide web, then there's a problem.
I don't have issues with soldiers recording their trophies, I have a problem with them bragging about it and looking like blood thirsty fools.

I think this is another generational thing. These young kids don't share pictures like us old people. We get out a stack of paper backed pics one a photo album and pass them back and forth. They never leave the room and all is good. But not with the youngsters. They post everything on FB or some sharing site. So these kind of pics get out and get them in trouble, just like their pics of drunken debauchery keep them from getting a job.

 

[longbarrel]

In a war the only rule should be "shoot before shot" There should be no other rules. That's why we call it war, no? Quit making declarations of war, if you are not willing to accept all that goes with it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

In a war the only rule should be "shoot before shot" There should be no other rules. That's why we call it war, no? Quit making declarations of war, if you are not willing to accept all that goes with it.

Except for declaring a "war on Global Terrorism", which the current Administration has buried under obfuscating language and denials, we haven't "declared war" on a country since WWII. In the absence of a Declaration of War, all sorts of restrictions on the use of force are, theoretically anyway, reasonable. You need to educate yourself on modern concepts of Armed Conflict. Let me modify that. If you are going to base your objections on the geopolitical realities of the current world, you need to understand the concepts of Armed Conflict so you don't confuse "total war" with "limited war".

 

[J_Wales]

War means fighting. The business of the soldier is to fight. Armies are not called out to dig trenches, to live in camps, but to find the enemy and strike him; to invade his country, and do him all possible damage in the shortest possible time. This will involve great destruction of life and property while it lasts; but such a war will of necessity be of brief continuance, and so would be an economy of life and property in the end.
-Jackson

 

[Blackhawk2001]

War means fighting. The business of the soldier is to fight. Armies are not called out to dig trenches, to live in camps, but to find the enemy and strike him; to invade his country, and do him all possible damage in the shortest possible time. This will involve great destruction of life and property while it lasts; but such a war will of necessity be of brief continuance, and so would be an economy of life and property in the end.
-Jackson

Unless that was a quote from Samuel L. Jackson playing Colin Powell, or someone else who was a late 20th century general or politician, those rules don't apply to the current world situation. Some quotations are immutable and long-lasting. Others get washed away by subsequent events. Your quotation is one of them.