Great shops @throttletony. Oak Hill Guns had me drooling all over my keyboard!
Glad you liked it.
That's where i got my CZ 75 Shadow w/ short dust cover
They had some CZ tac sport (orange also!) in stock
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USPSA Gun In Limited (.40 S&W) - Decisions
- Thread starter Doublehelix
- Start date
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Glad you liked it.
That's where i got my CZ 75 Shadow w/ short dust cover
They had some CZ tac sport (orange also!) in stock
Personally...I think I would go with your #1 option and just do the inexpensive thing to get started...as long as you have a solid platform to build on, many times keeling it simple and inexpensive is often best for a new endeavour!
The positive side is that you'd have extra $$ to spend on reloading stuff so that you're ahead in that area a bit! If .40 is the way you want to go, then have AllenM help you build a nicer one for year #2...and then you can enjoy both guns!
Just my $0.02 worth...
There are quite a few people shooting 9mm in Limited with some success. I think for a typical shooter it is a slight handicap, but for me (most people?) I shoot USPSA for fun, and as long as I'm getting better - that's ultimately what I'm concerned with.
If you want to be humbled, look up Gabe White on YouTube, he shoots a 9mm Glock from concealment (AIWB) and is a master or grandmaster in USPSA. Make those hits count!
If you want to be humbled, look up Gabe White on YouTube, he shoots a 9mm Glock from concealment (AIWB) and is a master or grandmaster in USPSA. Make those hits count!
For some reason I thought appendix carry wasn’t allowed for USPSA. I may consider running a small match like that just for practice.
It's not allowed in IDPA.
Appendix carry is allowed in USPSA in Open, Limited, Limited 10, Revolver divisions. It is not allowed Production or Single Stack. I don't know about Carry Optics because I haven't read those rules.
Good to know! I don’t think I’ll carry that way for most matches, but competing the way I carry in real life would probably be beneficial.
You make a good point, but the way the point system is skewed, you are at a definite disadvantage (unless you are Gabe White!) when you shoot Limited in minor. During my second match ever, there was a real arrogant person on my squad who talked down to me and even asked me not to go near the targets after they shot since I was new and they did not want me to mess with their scores. I stayed cool and calm, but deep inside I wanted to beat that person who honestly was not very good. That person was shooting Limited Major. When the scores came out, that person was 2 slots ahead of me on the overall scoreboard, and just one slot ahead of me on the Limited scoreboard. I had this gut feel that if I was shooting Major I could have beat that "nice person" which would have been a great moral victory for me and would have given me a great shot of confidence!
I realize that if I was shooting the heavier load, my scores might have been worse instead of better, but nonetheless, it made me realize that I am definitely leaving points on the board that I could be picking up by shooting Major. One A + One C in Minor is equal to Two C's in Major points-wise.
I know this is just for fun at this point for me, but I tend to be pretty competitive by nature (all in good fun however, and I am a gracious loser).
Another point is that as I advance in USPSA, I am going to want to shoot Limited Major someday, and now is the time to get used to the gun and the feel of the heavier load as I train for speed and transitions. As long as I am shooting all A's it obviously doesn't matter, but I am far from that point!!!
A funny thing to note: I was just reading Bob Stoeger's book the other night, and he makes a comment about this very topic and says you are an "idiot" if you shoot Limited Minor!!! I about fell out of bed laughing when I read that!!!
My 2 cents. A new gun, even switching from minor to major, isn't going to significantly change your scores. The only exception to that is if your current gun doesn't run. The most important thing is to have a gun that works 100% of the time. Everyone thinks you have to have a sweet 2011 but in reality, 2 of the top 3 Limited shooters at nationals were shooting Glocks. So if you still want a new gun, save up and buy the one you want. You aren't buying it to preform better, you are buying it because you want it (and there's nothing wrong with that). If you buy something else, you'll still be wanting the one you really wanted in the first place. Just make sure if you are buying it for USPSA, that it is well suited for that game (for example, if you are buying it for the sole purpose to shoot USPSA limited, 40 is the only choice).
The major/minor difference usually only effects you a couple places. For example, there was someone who shot minor in Limited at the state match which placed 21st/63%. Just switching him to major only bumped him up to 20th/65%. Maybe they could also gain 1 to 2% by shooting more aggressively which would put them around 18th or 19th. Not bad but not the most effective way to spend $2k+. New toys are fun but based on your OP, it sounds like money isn't falling from the trees. There's nothing wrong with shooting your current setup. Make it a challenge to see how many people in limited you can beat shooting minor. I really enjoy shooting production while trying to beat people in Limited and Open.
A couple comments on the options you asked about:
1. I don't know much about the Sig 226, but no one uses them in USPSA. There's usually a reason for that.
3. I hate the waffle pattern on the CZ. I'd have to get that recheckered/refinished and at that point, you might as well have bought a 2011.
4. I have a Tanfoglio Limited in 40, nice gun. Would work fine for the average USPSA shooting. EG won the World Shoot with it. No where near the part/holster options of a 2011. High level shooters like Eric and JJ shoot them but I'm sure they have lots of guns. Not sure how the durability would be if you were going to shoot 60k+ of major through it. But once you get to that amount of shooting, the gun price doesn't really matter that much. If I only shot Limited, I would sell mine and buy a 2011.
6. You should consider a "new to you" used 2011 as well. You can find some good deals on Enos.
The major/minor difference usually only effects you a couple places. For example, there was someone who shot minor in Limited at the state match which placed 21st/63%. Just switching him to major only bumped him up to 20th/65%. Maybe they could also gain 1 to 2% by shooting more aggressively which would put them around 18th or 19th. Not bad but not the most effective way to spend $2k+. New toys are fun but based on your OP, it sounds like money isn't falling from the trees. There's nothing wrong with shooting your current setup. Make it a challenge to see how many people in limited you can beat shooting minor. I really enjoy shooting production while trying to beat people in Limited and Open.
A couple comments on the options you asked about:
1. I don't know much about the Sig 226, but no one uses them in USPSA. There's usually a reason for that.
3. I hate the waffle pattern on the CZ. I'd have to get that recheckered/refinished and at that point, you might as well have bought a 2011.
4. I have a Tanfoglio Limited in 40, nice gun. Would work fine for the average USPSA shooting. EG won the World Shoot with it. No where near the part/holster options of a 2011. High level shooters like Eric and JJ shoot them but I'm sure they have lots of guns. Not sure how the durability would be if you were going to shoot 60k+ of major through it. But once you get to that amount of shooting, the gun price doesn't really matter that much. If I only shot Limited, I would sell mine and buy a 2011.
6. You should consider a "new to you" used 2011 as well. You can find some good deals on Enos.
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You make a good point, but the way the point system is skewed, you are at a definite disadvantage (unless you are Gabe White!) when you shoot Limited in minor. During my second match ever, there was a real arrogant person on my squad who talked down to me and even asked me not to go near the targets after they shot since I was new and they did not want me to mess with their scores. I stayed cool and calm, but deep inside I wanted to beat that person who honestly was not very good. That person was shooting Limited Major. When the scores came out, that person was 2 slots ahead of me on the overall scoreboard, and just one slot ahead of me on the Limited scoreboard. I had this gut feel that if I was shooting Major I could have beat that "nice person" which would have been a great moral victory for me and would have given me a great shot of confidence!
I realize that if I was shooting the heavier load, my scores might have been worse instead of better, but nonetheless, it made me realize that I am definitely leaving points on the board that I could be picking up by shooting Major. One A + One C in Minor is equal to Two C's in Major points-wise.
I know this is just for fun at this point for me, but I tend to be pretty competitive by nature (all in good fun however, and I am a gracious loser).
Another point is that as I advance in USPSA, I am going to want to shoot Limited Major someday, and now is the time to get used to the gun and the feel of the heavier load as I train for speed and transitions. As long as I am shooting all A's it obviously doesn't matter, but I am far from that point!!!
A funny thing to note: I was just reading Bob Stoeger's book the other night, and he makes a comment about this very topic and says you are an "idiot" if you shoot Limited Minor!!! I about fell out of bed laughing when I read that!!!
You're only an idiot if you buy a 9mm for the sole purpose of shooting it in USPSA Limited. Shooting a gun you already have while you get involved and figure things out is perfectly legit. You just aren't going to win National Championships with that. Revenge is a dish best severed cold. If you really want to stick it to someone, practice and get better than them. Not buy spending $2500 so you beat them by 0.5%.
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partyboy6686
Expert
Glock 35 would be the cheapest way to get into limited major. I started limited major with a CZ Tactical Sport. It is a great gun. I only switched to 2011 platform because the Tactical Sport has magazines that restrict how long you can load ammo. I load all my 40 to 1.200 OAL so that it reliably feeds in the 1911's I use for Single Stack division. The tactical sport wouldn't let me reload ammo past 1.150 OAL and fit in the magazines. I hated having to reload ammo at 2 different OAL so I switched to the 2011 platform. I don't really see any advantage of the Tactical Sport over the 2011 or vice versa. The 2011 platform is more popular on the range.
Good on paper
Sharpshooter
I haven’t met ‘that’ guy yet but I assume I will. Everyone I’ve come across has been friendly and helpful at best or at the worst indifferent. I was having an intermittent FTE issue at my last match and a guy loaned me an extractor without a second thought. That says a lot about the kind of people that usually participate. I bet it would have been fun to spank your ‘pal’ but that’ll come.
I feel like there is a pretty wide disparity between minor and major that could be addressed now that scoring is mostly done on tablets, like a multiplier that would really level the field instead of favoring major, but who know if that’ll ever happen.
One thing that hasn’t been brought up is that the 2011 platform guns don’t deprecate much. If you decide to get an Edge for instance and dropped an additional 4-500 on mags and upgrades you’d be in around $2500. You could shoot that gun for a couple years and then sell the entire setup for around $2k if you decided it wasn’t for you. The initial investment is high but the true cost is in ammo
I feel like there is a pretty wide disparity between minor and major that could be addressed now that scoring is mostly done on tablets, like a multiplier that would really level the field instead of favoring major, but who know if that’ll ever happen.
One thing that hasn’t been brought up is that the 2011 platform guns don’t deprecate much. If you decide to get an Edge for instance and dropped an additional 4-500 on mags and upgrades you’d be in around $2500. You could shoot that gun for a couple years and then sell the entire setup for around $2k if you decided it wasn’t for you. The initial investment is high but the true cost is in ammo
a lot of good points have been made in the previous replies, and i'll add my $0.02.
i started shooting USPSA back in the mid 90s with a very, very, well used 1911 .45acp open gun.
$125 in shooting star 10rd mags, used belts and gilmore holster, and new safariland mag holders, and i was all "in" for under $1000.
for some odd reason i thought my gun was "holding me back" and laid out $2K for a custom para-ord 38super.
i HATED that gun with a passion, after about 6 months i tossed it in the safe and went back to my trusty, and well worn springfield 1911.
the gun feels right in my hand, goes bang for 1000's of rounds before it gets so filthy it wont extract.
i get some strange looks everytime i shoot.....
i started shooting USPSA back in the mid 90s with a very, very, well used 1911 .45acp open gun.
$125 in shooting star 10rd mags, used belts and gilmore holster, and new safariland mag holders, and i was all "in" for under $1000.
for some odd reason i thought my gun was "holding me back" and laid out $2K for a custom para-ord 38super.
i HATED that gun with a passion, after about 6 months i tossed it in the safe and went back to my trusty, and well worn springfield 1911.
the gun feels right in my hand, goes bang for 1000's of rounds before it gets so filthy it wont extract.
i get some strange looks everytime i shoot.....
Tons of great responses!!! Thanks to @romack991, @partyboy6686, @Good on paper and @crewchief888!
A lot of great stuff to think about.
I am sure that I can continue shooting Minor and can learn and progress just fine. BUT... eventually, I will want to be as productive as possible, and I certainly need as much help as I can get!
It makes sense to learn and train with the gun that I will be using in the years to come, and I think the 2011 platform is the way to go going forward.
Look at the post from @crewchief888 where he was used to the 1911 and hated the Para gun. I want to learn and train with the platform that I will be using going forward.
I have pretty much decided to go with a 2011 unit of some sort. At this point, I am leaning towards a new STI Edge for about $2,000, and then as time goes on, I have a platform that I can upgrade and grow with.
I realize that a new $2K gun is not going to be a panacea that doubles my scores, but it does help to have the right equipment for the job, some of it physically, and some of it mentally.
A lot of great stuff to think about.
I am sure that I can continue shooting Minor and can learn and progress just fine. BUT... eventually, I will want to be as productive as possible, and I certainly need as much help as I can get!
It makes sense to learn and train with the gun that I will be using in the years to come, and I think the 2011 platform is the way to go going forward.
Look at the post from @crewchief888 where he was used to the 1911 and hated the Para gun. I want to learn and train with the platform that I will be using going forward.
I have pretty much decided to go with a 2011 unit of some sort. At this point, I am leaning towards a new STI Edge for about $2,000, and then as time goes on, I have a platform that I can upgrade and grow with.
I realize that a new $2K gun is not going to be a panacea that doubles my scores, but it does help to have the right equipment for the job, some of it physically, and some of it mentally.
I worked up some loads for my 1911 yesterday, and I am remembering just how much I love this gun (.45). I have not shot it much over the last 6 months or so, but I put a couple hundred rounds downrange yesterday, and was smiling the entire time.
This just really validates my desire to go with a 2011 for my .40 Limited gun. I love the platform and trigger design. I realize that the wide-bodied 2011 is a different beast compared to the 1911, but they are functionally very similar with similar style triggers.
I am feeling more confident that this is the right path forward (2011).
This just really validates my desire to go with a 2011 for my .40 Limited gun. I love the platform and trigger design. I realize that the wide-bodied 2011 is a different beast compared to the 1911, but they are functionally very similar with similar style triggers.
I am feeling more confident that this is the right path forward (2011).
partyboy6686
Expert
Maybe meet up with someone local and shoot their 2011 to make sure it's what you want. I work for AllenM out at Diamond Collision. I have two 2011's he built for me. If your ever out west I could meet up and let you shoot them. Maybe get Allen to meet up too and shoot his 2011 sight trackers at the same time. See which style you like better.
Thanks for the kind offer! I actually did meet with AllenM and got a chance to shoot a couple of his 2011 sight trackers... amazing!!! That is what sold me on the 2011 design, but I was sort of balking at the cost right now. I have decided that I can't compromise with this gun, so it looks like a 2011 is in my future as well!
I held the same one. It is in .40. If it was in 9mm I would have taken it home with me. That gun and trigger feels amazing
