Vaccinations. Yes or no ?

[XDdreams]

I will admit no such thing. I will admit that a great deal of children are affected by vaccines, and some aren't. I will admit there are many doctors who are against vaccines, and many who support it. I see both sides.

Well, at least you study and mindless follow the rantings of a Playboy Playmate who has cured her son of Autism.

But surely you would admit that the anti-vaccination crowd depends on utter fraud to lambast modern medicine?

 

[XDdreams]

Very logical. I agree with your methods. I am in no way saying every single doctor on the earth is evil and wants to murder children. That's just silly. But considering your doctors thoughts, and taking them into account while formulating your own decisions is wise.

Because someone has been to school and studied Pediatrics, they are qualified to give me advice, yes. Assuming I have developed some sort of relationship* with my doctor, I will place some level of value on their advice. I will also do my own research, and THEN form my own opinion.

Not once has anything been forced on me by our pediatrician. She does lobby hard on some items, and is more "informational" on others. That's fine. Since she is human, her advice will be colored by opinion as well as fact. In the end, it is always my (and my wife's) decision.

I would REALLY love to hear someone who is anti-vaccine explain, in their own words, how the human immune system works and how most vaccines interact with the immune system.

* Those of you that don't trust your doctor, FIRE THEM AND GET A NEW ONE.

I'm going to bed. This thread had better be 50 pages of name calling by morning, or I'm going to be disappointed!

 

[Sylvain]

When I say research I mean months and months of reading and comparing, not in the least bit minutes. If you want to give control of your family's life to another person by all means do so. I am going to formulate my own opinions and do whats best for my family.

I think we all do that, if we have a family member that needs surgery at the ER we trust the doctor or we would all do the surgery ourselves at home.
If I didn't trust my doctor with my life he wouldn't be my doctor.

 

[cyprant]

A big +1 for vaccinations... its one of the reasons we are living much longer in modern days...not to mention having children make it past 12 unlike some 3rd world countries.

Remember reading about the flu epidemic about 100 years ago? Well now we can fight some of these and we better...

I agree with what most are saying, if you dont trust YOUR doctor, find a new one. Interview doctors untill you find a good one...
I find it scary when i hear people talk about their doctors and how they came to be there px. It probably the most important person you pay...

 

[cyprant]

Oh, and autisim is not connected to vaccines... its a myth

 

[J_Wales]

Because the doctor has been to school and he knows that it is within your child's best interest to be vaccinated.

.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Pyroponce]

ITT: People who read Wakefield and believed him

Parents who would withhold all vaccines from their children should surely have their children taken away, if only to be vaccinated and promptly returned.

 

[hooky]

How about you do ALL the vaccines you want and let me make the decision about which ones are best for me and mine?

 

[J_Wales]

How about you do ALL the vaccines you want and let me make the decision about which ones are best for me and mine?

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

 

[cyprant]

Simply going against popular opinion because FOX news ran a ridiculous story dosent make you enlightened...

("You" - general)

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

ITT: People who read Wakefield and believed him

Parents who would withhold all vaccines from their children should surely have their children taken away, if only to be vaccinated and promptly returned.

Helpful Fascism!! Gotta love people who 'help' when it's not wanted...

 

[Pyroponce]

How about you do ALL the vaccines you want and let me make the decision about which ones are best for me and mine?

Because vaccines work best when everyone in a population is vaccinated. If you decide to not have your children get the MMR vaccine and they contract measles, your children may may fight it off or they may not. Maybe one of your kids ends up deaf. But my daughter (with a weak immune system anyway), even though vaccinated, contracts multiple cases of measles from a newly infected population (vaccinations aren't a total guarantee against infection) and she dies as a result.

You're really not doing your children any favors by withholding vaccines, and you are potentially endangering mine. That's an intolerable state of affairs in this blessed country when modern medicine is so readily available.

 

[J_Wales]

You're really not doing your children any favors by withholding vaccines, and you are potentially endangering mine. That's an intolerable state of affairs in this blessed country when modern medicine is so readily available.

How is it endangering yours?

Yours has the vaccine.

 

[Pyroponce]

How is it endangering yours?

Yours has the vaccine.

Did you even bother to read my first paragraph?

Because vaccines work best when everyone in a population is vaccinated. If you decide to not have your children get the MMR vaccine and they contract measles, your children may may fight it off or they may not. Maybe one of your kids ends up deaf. But my daughter (with a weak immune system anyway), even though vaccinated, contracts multiple cases of measles from a newly infected population (vaccinations aren't a total guarantee against infection) and she dies as a result.

 

[rambone]

It depends, if you endanger others with your children then society has a right to tell a person what to do with their children.

Please, say more about this.

Define "endanger others."

What kind of measures do you support?

Oh, and autisim is not connected to vaccines... its a myth

Well, its settled then. You proved a negative.

 

[J_Wales]

Did you even bother to read my first paragraph?

Ah.. sorry. I missed the part where you said vaccines are not a guarantee against infection and that your daughter has a weak immune system.

 

[hooky]

Because vaccines work best when everyone in a population is vaccinated. If you decide to not have your children get the MMR vaccine and they contract measles, your children may may fight it off or they may not. Maybe one of your kids ends up deaf. But my daughter (with a weak immune system anyway), even though vaccinated, contracts multiple cases of measles from a newly infected population (vaccinations aren't a total guarantee against infection) and she dies as a result.

You're really not doing your children any favors by withholding vaccines, and you are potentially endangering mine. That's an intolerable state of affairs in this blessed country when modern medicine is so readily available.

What do you know about my kids and what vaccines they've gotten and haven't gotten or the results of those vaccinations? You want your daughter to have them. I no longer want my children to have them. You have your reasons. I have mine.

Is there anything else that you believe should be forced upon my family, so that your family may be better off as a result?

I had hoped your comment about taking my children away, vaccinating and then returning them to me was an implied purple. Thanks for showing me the true color. And please don't use polio as the example why my kids should get a vaccine for chicken pox as others have upthread. That's such apples to oranges argument.


All for the greater good, I suppose.

 

[Pyroponce]

Helpful Fascism!! Gotta love people who 'help' when it's not wanted...

Not fascism, but rather Lockean. Are you familiar with John Locke, the English philosopher whose work on Social Contract theory heavily influenced Thomas Jefferson writing of the Declaration of Independence?

In brief, man existing in a state of nature band together and form a government unto which emails every man gives up some natural rights in order to enjoy greater overall freedom. In a state of nature, man has the unlimited right to do whatever he pleases (including not seek preventative medical treatment), but life isn't worth living in a state of nature when it's cut off by measles. So in this government formed by consent, people give up that unlimited right, and in the case of measles, science that isn't the work of hacks is followed and so everyone is required to get vaccinated, as outlined in one of my previous posts.

Now if that's fascism, then you must be a proponent of anarchy as a system of government.

 

[J_Wales]

Not fascism, but rather Lockean. Are you familiar with John Locke, the English philosopher whose work on Social Contract theory heavily influenced Thomas Jefferson writing of the Declaration of Independence?

In brief, man existing in a state of nature band together and form a government unto which emails every man gives up some natural rights in order to enjoy greater overall freedom. In a state of nature, man has the unlimited right to do whatever he pleases (including not seek preventative medical treatment), but life isn't worth living in a state of nature when it's cut off by measles. So in this government formed by consent, people give up that unlimited right, and in the case of measles, science that isn't the work of hacks is followed and so everyone is required to get vaccinated, as outlined in one of my previous posts.

Now if that's fascism, then you must be a proponent of anarchy as a system of government.

Wow... Locke advocating for government mandated inoculations over the free will of parents and / or their children.

I'll have to pull my copy of the two treatisies and see on what page number that is discussed.

Which page number is it in your copy?

 

[hooky]

So the Founders, especially Jefferson, would have concluded that it's acceptable to remove children from their parent's home to force an unwanted, and in most cases unneeded, medical treatment upon them?

That's what you advocated earlier with a straight face isn't it?