Value of a life

[odie]

The other day I was watching NRA TV on the outdoor channel. The host said, that a bad guy took a gun to work to kill his boss. As this guy was shooting up the work place and hitting bystanders a, “Good Guy” went to his vehicle got out his personal gun returned to the plant and eliminated the bad guy and saved his bosses life. After thinking the guy the boss fired the “Good Guy” for having a firearm on company property.
I work for a large corporation with over 700 employees at our facility. We hear a lot of stupid treats being made and take all of them seriously. We are fortunate to have a great HR manager who is down to earth and cares. So I went to him and ask what would happen at our facility under the same circumstances. He told me, he would try to save the persons job, but corporate would make the final decision. Then he said something that I would like to share with the world. He said, in his opinion no job was worth more than a human life, besides if you did lose your job for saving a life, it would be easy to find another one. I could not agree more

 

[zombieglock]

It is sad to hear he lost his job. Id rather save a life or protect my own. I'll lose my job over that.

 

[po7g]

I agree that a life is more valuable then a job, but in a eat or be eaten world, if asked why you lost your other job and you told them they could take that as you being a rule breaker and if you broke that rule what would stop you from breaking other rules. But I would hope the person doing the interview would see your a good person and understand you did what you did to save a life.

 

[williamsburg]

Yes unfortunately there are numerous ways that a "good guy" would be the "bad guy" in the end. But like you said nothing trumps human life. Morally you have to do what is right to you regardless of the end result.

 

[johnny45]

Maybe now he is thinking he should have used Brooks Hatlen's idea!

 

[churchmouse]

Every service company I have worked for has a no firearms in the truck policy. It is in place to protect their A$$ if a situation arises like the one posted or we have to defend ourselves on a late night call in God Knows where against God knows what. They are afraid of the legal ramifications and could give a crap about us. It has been so stated.
I have never observed this rule anywhere I have worked and have been released over it. No biggie. Had another job in about 30 minutes.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

 

[SOCOM242]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

Laws aside, it is in our nature (well, for many of us) to want to stop the shooting and save the innocent.

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:13

 

[Spike_351]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

I cant blamr him a bit, I have a lot of close family and friends where I work, so stray bullets flying around is not an option, about getting my self killed to save immediate family is though, its a real catch 22

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

Laws aside, it is in our nature (well, for many of us) to want to stop the shooting and save the innocent.

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:13

You kind of illustrate my point. The book you reference is filled up with people getting jammed up while doing the right thing. I am just amazed (and glad) that it didn't happen in this case. I would also be sorely tempted to "get some" in that circumstance, but I have to wonder about the wisdom and legality in doing so. Once I got in big trouble for just speaking to a police officer with information that could of saved his life. I won't EVER make that mistake again. Once bitten, twice shy I guess.......

 

[BE Mike]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

Yeah, I think you're alone now.

 

[HoughMade]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

I sure as heck hope some sort of trespasser with bad judgment like this guy is around if a nut comes after me and I'm unarmed.

Do not confuse the elements of self-defense with the defense of others and work rules.

To act in the defense of another, you don't have to be in danger, yourself. That should be obvious. As for the work rules, that may go to trespassing and termination, but have nothing to do with whether the use of force against a person who "also" was not legally allowed to be there, was legally justified.

 

[LarryC]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

Wow, I sure hope its not you that has my back if something happens. I am 71 years old, and would never let laws or future problems stop me from saving an innocent persons life. Sure I might end up losing my job and or even being in court, but I believe a jury would find my actions correct regardless. If not, I still have to face the final judge and would be able to hold my head a little higher.

 

[SERparacord]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

So will your new name be "shot my toe off"?

 

[buckstopshere]

It looks like I am alone here, but I think that maybe he should have gotten into his car and driven away. This guy left a shooting scene, was in his car, and then returned on foot into the face of danger to return fire? I am surprised that he didn't go to jail. I am not saying that he is not a hero, I am saying that he was no longer in fear of his life....... He then made a decision to put himself into harm's way when he returned to the field of danger willingly and on purpose.

When he returned to company property with a gun despite company rules, he was then trespassing. Trespass while armed? discharging a firearm in the workplace? not to mention shooting at a guy? We have had prosecutors right here in Indianapolis who would have made him an accessory to the crime and jammed him up for his trouble. Often extenuating circumstances isn't enough to placate the law. (or placate hotdog authorities)

I am not sure that he was on a legal footing, seeing that he was not supposed to even be there with a gun at all, and had no obligation to intervene. I am glad that he saved the bosses life and I recognize that he is a hero. I just think that he acted impulsively and if he had given the consideration that he should have, he would have just driven away.

Not so sure about this being a legal problem. I'm not a cop or a lawyer so I'm just thinking out loud.

Yes, you defend yourself when you're in fear of your life but you're also able to defend the life of another. I think this falls squarely into that category. He was defending the lives of many others. I don't see any grounds for arrest there. Sounds to me as this would fall well within the boundaries of self defense/defense of others.

 

[churchmouse]

You kind of illustrate my point. The book you reference is filled up with people getting jammed up while doing the right thing. I am just amazed (and glad) that it didn't happen in this case. I would also be sorely tempted to "get some" in that circumstance, but I have to wonder about the wisdom and legality in doing so. Once I got in big trouble for just speaking to a police officer with information that could of saved his life. I won't EVER make that mistake again. Once bitten, twice shy I guess.......

Kill the messenger. I will never understand that way of thinking.

As to the boss that fired this man who for what ever reason, saved his life....what a total A$$ hat. I would loose my job first for not firing him. Just something wrong with this.

If he was after the boss you have to wonder what he did to this person. The firing may shed some light on the bosses character.

 

[danielson]

Ive been a good guy my whole life. When a situation came up where I could do whats right, or do what would help me move forward, I always did whats right. because of that, I have nothing, but my pride in knowing I did what is right, and even though Im not religious, that means something to me.

I think alot of people who are successful, got that way by trading some degree of morality along the way. Id rather be poor. I have to live with myself when I lay down at night..

Its mostly true what they say, nice guys finish last.

 

[johnny45]

I carry a firearm to protect my loved ones, my property, and myself.

I do not carry a firearm to protect others who neglect their responsibility.

 

[Tanfodude]

I think, this partially applies to that case.

IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

 

[otownrifleman]

In the state of Indiana the law now allows you to keep a gun in your vehicle while at work. See below.



Controversial ‘Take Your Gun to Work’ Law Signed in 2010
On March 18, 2010, Gov. Mitch Daniels signed P.L. 90-2010 into law, allowing workers to keep lawfully possessed firearms and ammunition in their locked vehicles in trunks, glove compartments or out of plain sight while parked on company property. The law was a response to Indiana employers (and employers around the nation) that prohibited employees from having firearms anywhere on company property through corporate gun policies and workplace violence rules. The “take your gun to work” law made it illegal for Indiana employers to adopt any policy that prohibits, or has the effect of prohibiting, employees from having firearms in their locked vehicles while the vehicle is on company property.
In 2011, a nondisclosure amendment was added prohibiting an employer doing business in Indiana from requiring an applicant for employment or an employee to disclose information about whether the applicant or employee owns, possesses, uses or transports a firearm or ammunition.