Video for discussion

[maxmayhem]

when would it be appropriate to point a loaded weapon at some one and then stab them in the throat with it.....if they are threat to this extent then i am unloading on them....i hate this video...what the heck

 

[Shay]

when would it be appropriate to point a loaded weapon at some one and then stab them in the throat with it

Playing devil's advocate I can think of two reasons to choose to hit someone with a loaded, functioning pistol:

1. You need to conserve ammo and can deal with a close threat through firearm combatives.

2. You don't want to have the noise of a gun shot so you choose a strike instead.

Admittedly, I had to stretch to come up with those two.

 

[patton487]

Let me put it this way=== FRIEKIN' MORONS!

You know some ninja wanna be is gonna see this and try it with his buddies. Scary...

 

[riverman67]

I don't like the Idea of having people downrange while I am engaging a target between them.
Had I been asked to do this in class I would have refused.All it takes is for a tiny bit of Murphy to show up and someone gets shot and possibly killed.
This kind of training should be done with airsoft and simmunitions only.
I don't think using live weapons as impact weapons and then loading and firing them is a great Idea either. How many times have we heard that all guns are loaded and not to point them at anything you are not willing to destroy? I don't wish to destroy my training partners.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The use of a real weapon during some of the impact drills bothers me.

Carry over from Eskrima, Arnis or other FMA/IMAs. They* train with "live" weapons, or many instructors train that way. Steve "Stefe" Tarani tells a few stores of being handed razor sharp knives in order to conduct drills . . . for the first time.

Part of this nonsense is the Charge of the 300. Silly stuff gets amped up to distinguish themselves from the crowd even though this is the PI. This will get really bad in the next few years.




*When I say "they" I mean people who train in FMA I mean no disrespect to any group.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Playing devil's advocate I can think of two reasons to choose to hit someone with a loaded, functioning pistol:

1. You need to conserve ammo and can deal with a close threat through firearm combatives.

2. You don't want to have the noise of a gun shot so you choose a strike instead.

Admittedly, I had to stretch to come up with those two.

Wouldn't your reaction to a punch with a firearm in your hand make you ball up your fist? Wouldn't that be even more likely in a stressful situation?

If you hit someone with the pistol that would take the pistol out of battery. If for some reason you had to shoot them while pistol was on them you wouldn't be able to.

I fight and wrestle with psych patients at least on a weekly basis. All of this simulation crap goes out the window when someone is doing the windmill fist attack. My priority is always to:
1. Stop the attack.
2. Restrain the attacker.

At this point I wouldn't need to hit them with my firearm or flashlight, I have them restrained.

 

[Shay]

Wouldn't your reaction to a punch with a firearm in your hand make you ball up your fist? Wouldn't that be even more likely in a stressful situation?

Sure, it could. All the more reason to actually keep your finger well off the trigger if you are going to be striking with a firearm.

If you hit someone with the pistol that would take the pistol out of battery. If for some reason you had to shoot them while pistol was on them you wouldn't be able to.

There are better and worse ways to hit people with pistols if you need to fire it afterward. A straight muzzle strike with a pistol does have the possibility of malfunctioning a previously working gun.

I fight and wrestle with psych patients at least on a weekly basis. All of this simulation crap goes out the window when someone is doing the windmill fist attack. My priority is always to:
1. Stop the attack.
2. Restrain the attacker.

At this point I wouldn't need to hit them with my firearm or flashlight, I have them restrained.

Sorry, but I don't get the point you are trying to make.

I sometimes come across these videos and I think they make a good tool for evaluating what it being taught out there. I know what and why I teach what I teach, but I certainly can't defend what other schools do. I do like having the chance to have open discussions on some of the more "unconventional" tactics and techniques that are presented.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Sorry, but I don't get the point you are trying to make.

I sometimes come across these videos and I think they make a good tool for evaluating what it being taught out there. I know what and why I teach what I teach, but I certainly can't defend what other schools do. I do like having the chance to have open discussions on some of the more "unconventional" tactics and techniques that are presented.

At 2:52 they do an arm bar chicken wing move and draw their pistol. The training partner sits there docile as can be. This is just my (which isn't worth much) but that scenario is totally unrealistic. Sure it CAN work if everything is perfect but nothing is ever perfect. Holding onto that arm bar would be hard enough let alone with a chicken wing as well. The person restrained would at least be moving/jerking which will render any pistol shot useless.

Thanks for the intresting vid!

 

[Shay]

Did anyone notice that they never engage the retention straps on their holsters?

 

[Tommy2Tone]

Did anyone notice that they never engage the retention straps on their holsters?

yeah and a gun falls out at the end.

The one thing I can take away from this is something a lot of you have mocked. And that is hitting an attacker with your weapon. Things don't always go right in the real world (no extra mag) whatever the case may be. Not, using my gun as a blunt object would now be my first move, but it's something i'm glad i watched.

 

[Tripp11]

Did anyone notice that they never engage the retention straps on their holsters?

I did see at the end when the main trainer tossled with the bigger guy, the bigger guy's handgun came flying out onto the ground and then they were rolling around on top of it.

 

[gglass]

I did see at the end when the main trainer tossled with the bigger guy, the bigger guy's handgun came flying out onto the ground and then they were rolling around on top of it.

So? Nothing bad can come from that! These guys are PROs.

 

[B27R]

The use of a real weapon during some of the impact drills bothers me. Namely the one where he shoves the muzzle into the guy's neck. Sure he may have unloaded it, but I don't know that, and a blue gun could've just as easily been substituted for everyone's verification.

I would also be curious to hear the reasoning behind subduing an attacker and then shooting somewhere else. It seems like the most immediate threat is the guy with his hands on you, not the guy in pistol range. A live attacker isn't going to just sit there and let you take shots at his buddy. If you have the time and ability to access your firearm, you have the time and ability to put some rounds into the guy holding onto you.

The downrange photographer stunt does have training merit, but I think it can be conducted in other ways that induce similar stress and still necessitate focus. Putting live bodies down there leaves zero room for error (and there's always error in a training environment-- that's why we do it).

But hey, it looks cool on video and in games, and from the opening and closing it looks like they are into video games.

+1 here.

if you're offering a training course, use a STICK if you don't want to buy the fake weapons. But don't expect people to take you seriously when you're jabbing a real gun in their throat.

 

[B27R]

This certainly has all the feel of johhny knoxville meets rambo, but according to his site the Philippine government has contracted him for security...so...yeah...

I hear he's offering a grenade course this spring. Course to include, how to punch someone w/ a grenade, armbarring attackers and pushing the grenade down their throat, tossing grenades down range between live targets, and