Vulture Capatialism Affects Delphi And Cabelas...

[rosejm]

.

 

[jamil]

I think it’s okay to say “vulturism” is bad. Even immoral. That it shouldn’t happen. Okay. So now what? I’m willing to go this far but I’ll probably step off this train just before we get to government solutions.

 

[KokomoDave]

It's the reason I had to take a $5.00 / hr wage cut and my pension went to the public financed PBGC was because of that farging corksucker pulling strings like a puppet in front of Delphi execs. Nice thing was watching Battenberg et al get taken out in handcuffs by the FBI. I watched it from my perch on the roof at CTC. Ah!!

 

[BugI02]

I think it’s okay to say “vulturism” is bad. Even immoral. That it shouldn’t happen. Okay. So now what? I’m willing to go this far but I’ll probably step off this train just before we get to government solutions.

I kind of prefer the epilogue where the worker whose life has been ruined shoots the vulture capitalist in the face

 

[HoughMade]

I like the one where the worker takes control of his own life and finds a way to not be dependent upon negotiations and deals to which he is not invited.

People make some pretty selfish decisions when money is concerned. Thus, it will ever be.

 

[Ingomike]

I have been a pure libertarian/capitalist most of my life. I questioned the use of anti-trust against companies in the past. Now that I live in another era where the need for anti-trust action is needed I understand it better. I do not have a proposal to curb the activity that occurred in the OP examples but we certainly need to look at how these things came to be and what can be done to dis incentivize it.

 

[Hookeye]

Delphi was a scam from the get go. A GM test to see about ditching legacy issues. Delco was the only double digit profit maker of the five spun into Delphi. They had a lot of testing and development costs and still were double digit green.

Delphi used Delco as a cash cow to inflate the others groups, and stock price went up for a brief period. But nobody bought into it, cept suck as managers that mortgaged homes to buy stock to look like a company boy.

Obama_s Geitner preserved the hourly pensions during bankruptcy, called them rhe greater good. But the salaried went PBGC and is still being argued in court.

Designed to fail it was.

Too bad. Delco might have made it if left alone

 

[KokomoDave]

Hookeye. I agree totally. One of the biggest fighters is Ben Gifford. He has been hitting them where it hurts in court.
Remember the Big 3 that made money for GM during all recessions? GM Hughes. GMAC Mortgage. And Delco Electronics. All gone now. I work for a mere shell of a company it once was. I hired in first in '87 but got recalled back to active duty. Hired back in '90. Still the same place just no jobs. 330 people total on only 2 shifts. We had that many people on Main Board 1st shift if not more. Frickin' sad.

 

[Hookeye]

When you are skilled it doesnt much matter. Not when the whole economy is taking a hit.

There are a lot of other skilled folks looking for a job. And hiring managers have family and friends out of work too. Even if not for those jobs......its a scratch my back and ill scratch yours environment.

75% of jobs are because somebody knew somebody.

It aint like the old days ( where it was to lesser %).

Screw the feel good talk and pseudo businesses....coaching/ training....that too a scam.

 

[dwh79]

CSX was done the same way. Maybe oh Hunter Harrison had a few good ideas but now it is about operating ratio not common sense. Not sure the answer other than having people learn morals and looking past purely a ratio to drive stock prices up in the short term.

 

[Hookeye]

I remember still working in the Advanced Dev lab, had to run for parts over in another.
851 was gone. 870 was being pinched. Mainboard was being made to look bigger but was actually lesser. I knew then it was toast. Pre 2000.

They did a big meeting in CTC garage for salaried. They had done a round of CTP and a lot of good people took jt. More than they thought. To stop the bloodloss they tried for a mass pep talk.

B. Grey? Did a circular talk where he visited Delphis new digs and was impressed, so we should be impressed, because he went to the new corporate and was impressed. So we should be impressed.

No ****......he basically said that about word for word. Pathetic suck arse.

Worse was when he stopped and Todd N stood up to proclaim agreement. In front of several hundred people i stood up, shook my head, and walked out.

Others followed.

Hmmm. Proly why I got canned w 599 others in 08.

 

[Hookeye]

Lots of marirages fell apart. Many suicides ( K town paper hiding the fact).. Top five dying town. But became #1 turn around under dem mayor and chrysler bringing in lower wage folks from major urban areas. Top fifty safest cities too ( my arse ).

Plenty of rent houses. Pretty much a white flight.
FEMA dropped the hassle over the floodplane's new baseball stadium. And then come two thousand Chicago folks for new gov housing.
Hmmmmm.

Scanner has shooting reports nightly.
Town council lies about it, many already having moved.

All smoke n mirrors

 

[ATOMonkey]

I've seen companies do the exact same thing from the inside out. International Harvester used to be a manufacturing giant, making everything from trucks to tractors. When sales slumped, management had the bright idea (which was being taught at Harvard and other Ivy League schools at the time) to sell off capitol in order to keep up cash. Cash being a major indicator of a company's "health." Well, when you sell the stuff you use to make stuff, you can't make as much stuff (did I get that right?). Thus the inevitable decline to the point where they were ready to call it quits in the '90s. They were down to the engine and OTR truck business. Everything else was gone. Acres of factory floor space empty.

Even the vultures didn't want it. They couldn't liquidate enough equipment to make the purchase worth their time and effort.

Same story with Chrysler. They did things so poorly that even Cerberus (guardian of the underworld and liquidator of assets), didn't want them and sold it off to FIAT for a tidy sum thanks to good old Uncle Sugar stepping in and sweetening the pot.

Running a company badly isn't a crime, which is what all of this boils down to.

 

[Ingomike]

I've seen companies do the exact same thing from the inside out. International Harvester used to be a manufacturing giant, making everything from trucks to tractors. When sales slumped, management had the bright idea (which was being taught at Harvard and other Ivy League schools at the time) to sell off capitol in order to keep up cash. Cash being a major indicator of a company's "health." Well, when you sell the stuff you use to make stuff, you can't make as much stuff (did I get that right?). Thus the inevitable decline to the point where they were ready to call it quits in the '90s. They were down to the engine and OTR truck business. Everything else was gone. Acres of factory floor space empty.

Even the vultures didn't want it. They couldn't liquidate enough equipment to make the purchase worth their time and effort.

Same story with Chrysler. They did things so poorly that even Cerberus (guardian of the underworld and liquidator of assets), didn't want them and sold it off to FIAT for a tidy sum thanks to good old Uncle Sugar stepping in and sweetening the pot.

Running a company badly isn't a crime, which is what all of this boils down to.

No it is not. Your examples are different. Mistakes and poor management are not what we are discussing.

Cabelas was profitable until a minority 11% shareholder threatened the other investors stakes if they did not force the board to sell the company. This leverage upended a profitable company, consumers lost a retailer, employees lost jobs, government lost tax revenues, all so less than a handful could make a killing. Which is exactly what it was. It is not a legal crime but stoping the incentives to do this type of thing a being discussed...

 

[ATOMonkey]

No it is not. Your examples are different. Mistakes and poor management are not what we are discussing.

Cabelas was profitable until a minority 15% shareholder threatened the other investors stakes if they did not force the board to sell the company. This leverage upended a profitable company, consumers lost a retailer, employees lost jobs, government lost tax revenues, all so less than a handful could make a killing. Which is exactly what it was. It is not a legal crime but stoping the incentives to do this type of thing a being discussed...

What do you mean "threatened other investors stakes?"

 

[Ingomike]

What do you mean "threatened other investors stakes?"

He got a significant enough stake, 11%, that he could start a costly fight trying to get the board to sell. Though profitable, that fight would have drained resources and cash possibly taking the company down. Rather than fight, they sold. Other share holders could have been thrilled with the direction the company was headed but once this happened the prudent path is to side with the raider and get out.

 

[ATOMonkey]

He got a significant enough stake, 11%, that he could start a costly fight trying to get the board to sell. Though profitable, that fight would have drained resources and cash possibly taking the company down. Rather than fight, they sold. Other share holders could have been thrilled with the direction the company was headed but once this happened the prudent path is to side with the raider and get out.

I still don't know what you are talking about.

In 2011 Cabela's Financial arm settled with the FDIC over $10M it charged in "predatory" interest.

According to Fortune Magazine, Cabela's saw a 21% decline in stock price in 2015. While it may have been profitable, it was barely so. In 2017 they saw a 9.3% drop in sales. This resulted in an earnings drop of 26% in Q2. They were on a steep decline, facing increased competition from brick and mortar stores and online retailers. The company was doing so poorly, the merger was almost called off.

The way I read things, Cabela's is very fortunate that Bass Pro was willing to fork over about $5B to share holders rather than send the company into liquidation. Obviously, Bass Pro did not need two headquarters, so everyone in Sidney Nebraska was given a generous severance and told they were no long needed.

The Cabela's board and company leadership ran the company into the ground and are lucky to have been bought out rather than go into bankruptcy.

Correct me if my facts are wrong.

I did read the Fox News article, which was full of more feelings than facts about how Singer ruined the town. Cabela's was doing a fine job of that on their own before Singer showed up.

 

[Leadeye]

When the company I worked for was bought out I retired briefly, but found that I could market my skills part time. With all the consolidation in the industry vendors just don't help the way they used to and manufacturers find that they need somebody with my skill set. I'll probably keep doing this until I'm too old to get around, Curly's law applies here.

 

[KokomoDave]

Leadeye, happened to a friend Ludwig. He was let go and they turned around and he was 'rehired' as an outside vendor doing the same doggone job. My f-i-l John R retired from Delphi.