Weapon Retention 1 with Infinity Solutions and Choke-U

[Coach]

I do not think it very likely to show a physical skill or technique and be able to walk away and use it in 1,2, 3 days. Highly unlikely against a living opponent that is trying to win or hurt you. Spent a number of years wrestling and coaching it. Being able to perform a move or technique is tough enough in a drill situation, but being able to perform it live in practice in a combat situation is different, and being able to perform it live in a match in public is still different.

I see the same thing from people with a pistol. Learn a skill and then they do not practice it. They will not be able to perform that skill on demand.

 

[Jackson]

If they learn the skill and practice it until they can perform then stop practicing, the skill can fade. Consistency is important too.

 

[cedartop]

As Jackson knows, Josh and I struggle with these same exact issues in our class. We try to make it clear to people that nothing is free. Work is required on their part for anything to be effective. I hope this goes well for you Byron.

 

[jsharmon7]

I work with a local department and we train every month. I built a year for them and in the very cold winter months we roll.

We had a few from another department come out and it was great to see my regulars able to do so well against the "yearly" guys. They've committed their time and it really showed when we put a couple of new officers in there.

Good for them, and you, for taking the time and effort. It seems to be rare that folks are willing to put in the effort on their own time. I wish we had something like that close to my area.

 

[turnandshoot4]

On performing skills on demand:

If nothing else, isn't that why it is important to offer classes, make them affordable, and offer them regularly?

I agree, anyone VERY serious should be fighting/shooting/doing medical/exercising/eating right multiple times per week or even everyday. But isn't that a tall order for every John Q gun owner? Isn't that why they look to us to guide them?

The next question is are bad guys training everyday? Do they prepare everyday? If John Q practices once every 3 months and a bad guy does 1 drive by a year who will be a better shooter? The guy that has purposeful practice or the guy that literally doesn't even know where his bullets are going? I get it, we are preparing to fight some EPIC boss battle when our time comes. However, if we paint that picture to every possible student do we push them away because the goals seem too lofty? The enemy too great?

If someone is made better today than they were yesterday the mission was accomplished. They will bring more into that fight when fate chooses them. That, in my book, is a win.

I don't know, I'm just writing stream of consciousness here.

 

[Randy Harris]

I do not think it very likely to show a physical skill or technique and be able to walk away and use it in 1,2, 3 days. Highly unlikely against a living opponent that is trying to win or hurt you. Spent a number of years wrestling and coaching it. Being able to perform a move or technique is tough enough in a drill situation, but being able to perform it live in practice in a combat situation is different, and being able to perform it live in a match in public is still different.

Yep....got to where I could pull off a Granby Roll in practice more times than not but then it failed miserably in an actual match...... Just because you have been exposed to it and can do it more times than not in practice does not mean it will always go well when you try it for real and the other guy is trying just as hard as you are......

 

[turnandshoot4]

Yep....got to where I could pull off a Granby Roll in practice more times than not but then it failed miserably in an actual match...... Just because you have been exposed to it and can do it more times than not in practice does not mean it will always go well when you try it for real and the other guy is trying just as hard as you are......

To be honest I don't think it has anything to do with trying as hard. It has everything to do with someone expecting that roll because they had seen it in the past in that situation.

I pull off 5% of my scissor sweeps in jiu jitsu but about 85% of them in my small fight night group. Why? Are they not trying hard? No, they just hadn't seen then scissor sweep where all of the jiu jitsu people have.

 

[Randy Harris]

To be honest I don't think it has anything to do with trying as hard. It has everything to do with someone expecting that roll because they had seen it in the past in that situation.

I pull off 5% of my scissor sweeps in jiu jitsu but about 85% of them in my small fight night group. Why? Are they not trying hard? No, they just hadn't seen then scissor sweep where all of the jiu jitsu people have.

You'd probably be right if this were against an adult with years of BJJ or wrestling experience who was planning counters to known strategies and had seen that before. But this particular incident was 35 years ago in a middle school wrestling tournament. That particular guy certainly didn't expect it...there just weren't a whole lot of 12-14 year olds using that back then. And he didn't do anything specific to counter it...I just didn't get a good tight grip on him before I rolled and it just didn't work out that particular time. I was down in points late and was trying to get the Escape, Reversal and Backpoints all in one move. The odds that this guy had ever even seen a Granby roll at that point in time is right up there with the odds of him having seen Bigfoot chasing a leprechaun riding a unicorn. I just missed pulling it off. Sometimes things don't work at 100% resistance...especially the more complex they are.

My point was virtually every technique works 100% at 25% resistance, 50% of stuff works at 50% resistance , 25% works at 75% resistance and very little really works repeatably at 100% resistance. We need to be careful as instructors about what we teach as answers to life and death problems when all we have the student for is a couple of days....or less... and even then it is on the student to take what we teach them and work it to perfection after that. The class certificate isn't going to save them... the hard work they put in mastering the skills later will (hopefully- because luck plays a part and anything CAN fail).

 

[turnandshoot4]

I think you hit the nail on the head there for any 1 or 2 day class! Complexity.

Complex moves can be taught over time with tons of exposure.

Great points!

 

[turnandshoot4]

Somewhat relevant

https://www.martialjournal.com/i-watched-over-100-fights-on-youtube-heres-what-i-learned/

 

[jsharmon7]

Somewhat relevant

https://www.martialjournal.com/i-watched-over-100-fights-on-youtube-heres-what-i-learned/

Interesting! I used to watch tons of those videos just to see the tactics used. The only downside is that most of those fights are “dominance fights” as mentioned in the article. I can just about guarantee I will never be in this type of fight, nor will most of you folks who train for self defense. It does illustrate the idea that most people getting into fights have no idea what they’re doing. I will probably always be in that camp and will avoid these situations.

 

[rhino]

Yep....got to where I could pull off a Granby Roll in practice more times than not but then it failed miserably in an actual match...... Just because you have been exposed to it and can do it more times than not in practice does not mean it will always go well when you try it for real and the other guy is trying just as hard as you are......

Our coach taught us the Granby Roll in in 7-8 grade as well. It was not something I was capable of doing, but I was surprisingly good at a sitout and Pederson Roll for a fat kid. I used it to pin the heavyweight from Southmont in 1:37 of the second period with a sweet reverse half nelson. Yes, I remember that stupid detail.

As you mentioned, it didn't work as well on more skilled or stronger opponents.

 

[Randy Harris]

Yes and since I wrestled heavyweight , but just barely weighing enough to be in that class, it seems I was always wrestling older heavier kids.

 

[rhino]

Yes and since I wrestled heavyweight , but just barely weighing enough to be in that class, it seems I was always wrestling older heavier kids.

I would not be allowed to wrestle today (even my junior high school self, much less my high school self), since the instituted a maximum weight on "heavyweight." The one school sport where fat kids could participate, train, exercise, etc. and now no more. Yeah, they can train on their own, but being on a wrestling team is much better motivation for a fat kid than someone telling him "you need to exercise."

The eye opener for me occurred not when I was wrestling against the kid from other schools, but at my first AAU tournament. I was used to other fat kids and maybe someone who was held back a couple of years. What came to Indiana from Iowa and Nebraska alleging to be 13-14 years old were fully grown men (some with beards) who had been wrestling and training since they were toddlers. To say I was overmatched would be an understatement, but it was a good early lesson about what works some of the time against a "regular" opponent doesn't have a chance against someone who is far more skilled, faster, and stronger.

 

[Jackson]

I would not be allowed to wrestle today (even my junior high school self, much less my high school self), since the instituted a maximum weight on "heavyweight." The one school sport where fat kids could participate, train, exercise, etc. and now no more. Yeah, they can train on their own, but being on a wrestling team is much better motivation for a fat kid than someone telling him "you need to exercise."

I wish I had wrestled in school. I think wrestling or martial arts should be a mandatory part of the school curriculum.

 

[Randy Harris]

I would not be allowed to wrestle today (even my junior high school self, much less my high school self), since the instituted a maximum weight on "heavyweight." The one school sport where fat kids could participate, train, exercise, etc. and now no more. Yeah, they can train on their own, but being on a wrestling team is much better motivation for a fat kid than someone telling him "you need to exercise."

The eye opener for me occurred not when I was wrestling against the kid from other schools, but at my first AAU tournament. I was used to other fat kids and maybe someone who was held back a couple of years. What came to Indiana from Iowa and Nebraska alleging to be 13-14 years old were fully grown men (some with beards) who had been wrestling and training since they were toddlers. To say I was overmatched would be an understatement, but it was a good early lesson about what works some of the time against a "regular" opponent doesn't have a chance against someone who is far more skilled, faster, and stronger.

Of course the upside to heavyweight was that I never had to cut weight for weigh ins.......the problem was I couldn't seem to put much weight on either since I was always running for conditioning....

 

[Randy Harris]

I wish I had wrestled in school. I think wrestling or martial arts should be a mandatory part of the school curriculum.

I agree but a lot of liberal soccer moms would lose their minds....

 

[Jackson]

I agree but a lot of liberal soccer moms would lose their minds....

If they'd grown up grappling they may have a different view of the world now.

 

[Randy Harris]

If they'd grown up grappling they may have a different view of the world now.

Overcoming adversity (and adversaries) does have a way of changing one's worldview

 

[Coach]

I wish I had wrestled in school. I think wrestling or martial arts should be a mandatory part of the school curriculum.

You would not have been able to tolerate the coach.