Westfield PD disarms me during traffic stop

[338sniper]

So I was speeding and coming my direction was a Westfield Police Officer. It was my fault and I can own up to it. However, he asked me if I had any weapons in the vehicle (I usually just say no) however these cops know me well enough to know I'm usually carrying, so I was honest and said yes. He asked where it was and I told him on my side. He asked me to keep my hands where he can see them and to step out of the vehicle. He the proceeds to remove my firearm from its holster and take it to his car to run the #'s.
He returns to my truck with the mag removed, slide open, the round from the chamber, and a speeding ticket.


Is this protocol? I understand there position as far as Saftey, but if I was a threat I would not of informed him of the firearm. SMH

 

[Bunnykid68]

It is not protocol and it is wrong. Check out this thread and message Frank. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ns-between-police-legally-armed-citizens.html

 

[ashby koss]

IANAL .. From what I understand; It is proper to answer "yes" when asked and also to provide license upon asked, but I'm not 100% on the legality of asking unless there is a clear reason. Indiana is not a "Must inform" state, but if asked, then yes. Perhaps he had it on his mind and is being extra careful. Although I agree, if you were a threat.... 1) you'd answer "no" and they cant search unless given reason or permission, and/ or 2) he would have been shot before he had a chance to ask that question, which would answer his question in a rather loud way.

Seems like when you look at those two options for being a threat...well its a redundant and pointless question.

On a side note I feel that every police officers job duty #1, priority numero uno, is To get home safe.

 

[ATM]

...Indiana is not a "Must inform" state, but if asked, then yes...

No, even if asked, there is still no duty to answer.

OP should file a complaint.

 

[SteveM4A1]

I suggest reading James Malone v Indiana and Melvin Washington v Indiana below, respectively:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03200808jsk.pdf
http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03041001jsk.pdf

Basically, if no RAS for officer safety, no seizure.

 

[ashby koss]

No, even if asked, there is still no duty to answer.

OP should file a complaint.

I had no idea... So aslong as you do not pose a threat.. ie you give them no reason to suspect. +1 to INGO and ATM.

 

[iChokePeople]

Complaint. File one.

 

[Bang-bang]

No, even if asked, there is still no duty to answer.

OP should file a complaint.

You cant lie to a leo. (false informing) So what would happen then?

Yes to "OP should file a complaint "

 

[rhino]

You cant lie to a leo. (false informing) So what would happen then?

Yes to "OP should file a complaint "

First, not answering isn't lying.

Why can't you lie to an LEO? It's illegal to lie to a Federal LEO, but I am unaware of a similar Indiana law.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Lying about a material fact relevant to an investigation MIGHT by false informing, but unless you were stopped specifically because of having a firearm in your vehicle, the question is not relevant to the stop.

 

[ashby koss]

Lying about a material fact relevant to an investigation MIGHT by false informing, but unless you were stopped specifically because of having a firearm in your vehicle, the question is not relevant to the stop.

Although easily seen as an answer in and of itself, Would it be a bad idea at this point to just ask in a shocked kind of tone " What does that have to do with my speed?!"

 

[Mr. Habib]

Something like that or "Officer, why am I being stopped?" would work. Asking why they pulled you over also avoids the "do you know why I pulled you over" question they use to try to get you to admit what you did wrong.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

First, not answering isn't lying.

Why can't you lie to an LEO? It's illegal to lie to a Federal LEO, but I am unaware of a similar Indiana law.

Situation dependent, it all depends on what you're lying about. If you know Jimmy robbed the gas station and you tell me Timmy did it to try and throw me off the trail, that's illegal. If you tell me your dad was in the Civil War and your a certifed blimp pilot, that's not illegal. The relevant part here is "gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false;"

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Write a letter to Westfield PD and explain why you are displeased and/or file a complaint. If you and every other person who go through this stay silent then it will keep happening.

 

[nakinate]

Yeah, the officer can't do that. File a complaint. The second he sees a LTCH he should write you your speeding ticket and send you on the way.

 

[AndersonIN]

IANAL .. From what I understand; It is proper to answer "yes" when asked and also to provide license upon asked, but I'm not 100% on the legality of asking unless there is a clear reason. Indiana is not a "Must inform" state, but if asked, then yes. Perhaps he had it on his mind and is being extra careful. Although I agree, if you were a threat.... 1) you'd answer "no" and they cant search unless given reason or permission, and/ or 2) he would have been shot before he had a chance to ask that question, which would answer his question in a rather loud way.

Seems like when you look at those two options for being a threat...well its a redundant and pointless question.

On a side note I feel that every police officers job duty #1, priority numero uno, is To get home safe.

If that's their #1 priority then WHY remove a safe weapon from the safest place it can be? What if the LEO in unloading or removing the weapon shoots himself? Good luck on the driver trying to clear his name if the LEO dies!

If the person has a license and isn't suspected of any specific crime relevant to the weapon then leave it where it's at!

Not to mention that the LEO doesn't even think of the possibility much less probability that the driver has at least one other weapon in the car? I almost always do.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I suggest reading James Malone v Indiana and Melvin Washington v Indiana below, respectively:

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03200808jsk.pdf
http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/03041001jsk.pdf

Basically, if no RAS for officer safety, no seizure.

I've heard of too many instances where situations like this have come up. Thanks for the links. I'm printing them and out keeping copies of them in my vehicles.

 

[AndersonIN]

I've heard of too many instances where situations like this have come up. Thanks for the links. I'm printing them and out keeping copies of them in my vehicles.

Problem is it's more than likely not a good time to have a educational session with an officer. It just tends to tick them off more! I guess it is just best to just say nothing in vehicle illegal and then make complaint afterward if necessary.

 

[Rookie]

Situation dependent, it all depends on what you're lying about. If you know Jimmy robbed the gas station and you tell me Timmy did it to try and throw me off the trail, that's illegal. If you tell me your dad was in the Civil War and your a certifed blimp pilot, that's not illegal. The relevant part here is "gives false information in the official investigation of the commission of a crime, knowing the report or information to be false;"

So, being licensed to carry, there is no crime. Correct?

 

[338sniper]

Seeing how I live in Westfield I don't see any good coming from filing a complaint long term. I was honest with him in hopes of it earning me a "warning" rather than a ticket. Well, I still got the $180 ticket. I'm not cop bashing and I'm not looking for anyone else to do so. However, he never asked to disarm me as I thought he was asking me to get out of the vehicle to have visual while he went to his car and wrote a ticket, seems that could come close to illegal search and seizure? Maybe I'm reading to far into it and I should just move along and pay the ticket.