What are the advantages of an NFA trust?

[Clay]

I can only think of 2:

1) No worries about CLEO sign off.
2) easy transfer upon death (as long as all parties are of age)

Are there others?

I've always thought about getting a trust, and Im to a point where I need to poop or get off the pot. Im getting NFA projects lined up and now is the time. Ive not had an issue with CLEO sign offs, and I know there are very inexpensive options for normal transfers as long as the items are willed correctly.

So, thoughts?

 

[combat45acp]

One of the best is that other people besides you can take positive control of your NFA items...friend, dad, brother/sister, wife, etc

Quicker approval times because of the no back ground check. Oh and no "smugged" finger print cards.

 

[JTinIN]

Unless you can't get a sign off, really need to have multiple users and/or need to plan on passing on current high dollar items, would go with the CLEO sign off route while you live in an area that you can get it (not always the case after you move later in life) and save the trust / LLC for later when things change or you get more into the hobby with other others in the family. For a few items the CLEO and a copy of the Form 4 in the bank box is a better / easier / no maintenance option in the long run.

If you are a young pup (i.e. much under 60 ;-) and like many of us, the every day SBR and suppressors will be traded off and/or passed over moving to a new hobby / area of interest by the time you are old enough that you need to consider who gets them (or you give them away when you are older).

Another positive for the trust or LLC is if you end up working out of state (or country) and leave the toys with your parents or brother/sister. But same effect can be had with a separate locked container (or bank box for suppressors and small SBRs that break apart easily ..... I don't like having near complete guns in banks myself .

Have not checked the issues if you move out of state with the trust (something to talk over with your lawyer), as I went the LLC option after recommendation and research (note I am not a young pup, son is interested in NFA and his graduation present (RR Uzi) is part of the LLC).

 

[LouisvillePatriot]

If you make an SBR you will put the name of the Trust on the gun instead of your individual name. Big plus right there.

 

[Clay]

IF you had multiple NFA items (I have 2, 1 pending) before the NFA trust, would you spend the extra $200 per item to transfer those items into the trust?

I know 1 of my items I *might*, but the other two are lower dollar items that I probably wouldn't worry about.

 

[Boomstick]

Like stated, it would allow you and numerous friends to each buy different things and legally share them

 

[MattCFII]

Just as the competing method, how does a Form 5 transfer work? The current owner dies, you find a NFA dealer to take the item(s) until the paperwork clears and you just pay the dealer's transfer fee?

How much shorter approval times does a trust bring?

How much legal fees is a typical trust change if you need to add/remove people from the trust?

Do the previous trust members have any legal recourse to the items or to monetary compensation if they are cut out of the trust for non-criminal reasons?

Can you as the trustee be cut out of your own trust by the other members?

How liable are the members for another member's misuse?

If some one in the trust goes bankrupt, can trust property be seized?

Yes, you have total control over the people you add but just throwing out some worst case scenarios that even within families people can sometimes deal with.

EDIT: Thought of a couple more.
What if a husband and wife are in a trust and they get divorced, that property would have to be part of the settlement right? (not to mention changing the trust) Do traditionally registered NFA items fall under marriage community property laws even though they can only be legally registered to one person? If they don't, that could be one advantage of a normal NFA method if your wife is threatening to divorce you if you buy another gun

What if someone in the trust is arrested on a charge that if convicted would make the no longer be eligible to own firearms, can the items be confiscated if A. they are currently in that persons possession or B. not even in their possession? (I assume most trusts would have a clause about automatically removing a member on conviction, but firearms are often seized before that and it can be a pain getting them back even if you are the rightful owner/co-owner).

 

[Clay]

Just as the competing method, how does a Form 5 transfer work? The current owner dies, you find a NFA dealer to take the item(s) until the paperwork clears and you just pay the dealer's transfer fee?

This is how I understand it.

How much shorter approval times does a trust bring?

The beneficiary is named in the trust. Upon the death of the grantor (original owner of trust), they take possesion of the trust. I guess they then become the grantor or maybe an executor? Either way, as long as they are legally able to own the NFA weapons, there is no approval time. It just is.

How much legal fees is a typical trust change if you need to add/remove people from the trust?

Im pretty sure the Grantor of the trust can add and take away as they want. It just depends on if you want to do it, OR if you want to have an actual lawyer do it.

Do the previous trust members have any legal recourse to the items or to monetary compensation if they are cut out of the trust for non-criminal reasons?

Im not sure, BUT my thought is the Grantor of the trust is the only owner and since these are revocable trusts, I doubt they have any leg to stand on.

Can you as the trustee be cut out of your own trust by the other members?

I think only the Grantor can make changes while he is alive.

How liable are the members for another member's misuse?

No idea.

[/quote]If some one in the trust goes bankrupt, can trust property be seized? [/quote]

My thoughts are since the Grantor is the only "owner" then only if he were to go bankrupt would there be an issue, BUT Im not a lawyer and this is pure speculation.

again, Im not a lawyer!! I didn't even stay at a holiday inn express last night.

 

[SynnerG]

Hey all, I was interested in this avenue as well for future NFA purchases, but I sat down with a lawyer today for some consultation on this. For a general revokable living trust, with all the documents and time put in, he quoted about $2,000. Is this the price range you guys have had to pay before? Or maybe there's a more specific setup for a trust that is more cheap and quick? I've heard of the "will software" option, but I'm not gunna trust something like that when potential federal prison time is at stake.

 

[woodsman07]

I think $2,000 is way to much to pay for a trust, for your NFA toys. Did he include anything else in that price, like additional estate planning or a will? If that price is just for a NFA trust, run away and run away quick!

I paid $400 for mine to give you a ball park price.

 

[Clay]

yeah thats very high from the 3 prices Ive been quoted.

 

[Stainer]

Where have you guys been looking? I'm young and think this would be a great benefit to have now and use for a long time.

 

[SynnerG]

Hm, it seemed that the price was for the full shabang, like will and everything. I guess if I was like I just want one for NFA items it's a more cut and dry document? I'm in the Bloomington area, if anyone has any suggestions for other lawyers to consult with that got a deal more around 200-400 bucks. Thanks.

 

[confused89]

I used guntrustlawyer out of Florida. It cost me $600.

 

[bigjross2002]

Does anyone know any local Indiana Lawyers to get a trust from and some pricing on them? I agree 2000 seems WAY high.

 

[ryknoll3]

Just as the competing method, how does a Form 5 transfer work? The current owner dies, you find a NFA dealer to take the item(s) until the paperwork clears and you just pay the dealer's transfer fee?.

On a Form 5 transfer, the executor of the estate can take possession of the NFA stuff until the transfer goes through. There is no need to involve an SOT.

 

[CountryBoy19]

On a Form 5 transfer, the executor of the estate can take possession of the NFA stuff until the transfer goes through. There is no need to involve an SOT.

This ^^^

I may be misremembering (that happens quite frequently) but I'm pretty sure that in the event of a Form 5 transfer to a legal heir upon the death of the rightful owner you don't even need to involve an SOT if the heir resides in a different state. It can transfer straight to them...

 

[theweakerbrother]

How To Set Up A Trust For NFA

 

[CountryBoy19]

How To Set Up A Trust For NFA

IMHO, I wouldn't follow the advice there. Quicken has long been known to have language issues that make it a poor choice for NFA trusts and it also has some issues with complying with certain state laws.

You wouldn't park your Ferrari in a cardboard box, why park your NFA assets in a trust that won't stand up if it ever ends up in court?

 

[SynnerG]

Yeah, I know a lot of people do the software route, but I'm not going to for my own reasons. But everyone's like "Oh yeah, a lawyer can do this for couple hundred bucks." A full blow like "I need a trust for my car, house, and artwork because I'm about to die and want to leave it to my family" is 2 grand. Supposedly there's some sort of quick and easy "NFA Trust" that I'm supposed to use, but not sure of the details here.