What constitutes serious bodily injury?

[Alamo]

Texas definition seems a bit more objective.
PC Ch 1, Sect 1.07, Para (46): 46) "Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

I'm with NyleRN. Pain seems a wildly imprecise "measure". My wife can bump into a door from walking through the doorway and be in agony. After cutting and stacking brush I'll find scratches, small lacerations, a couple splinters, and not have been aware of them before I saw them. People roll pain and suffering into a single thing, but I think of it as "pain" = the physical sensation, "suffering" as the emotional reaction to it. Getting slapped by a stranger hurts and pisses you off, but getting slapped by a spouse will engage a whole new level of "suffering."

 

[T.Lex]

So, there is the notion that an aggressor "takes the victim as he finds them." A policy that ignores some people are more easily injured/less pain tolerant than others would effectively treat them as less important.

"Well, most people only feel a broken nose at a level of 3 on a scale of 1-10. That you felt it at an 8 is your problem."

Plus, in a way, I think it reflects how a jury would handle the situation. Let's say we had a system that allowed/required a special verdict from the jury on how much pain someone felt. That it was something a jury would have to make a finding about. They would listen to the testimony from the victim, perhaps some medical testimony, and then make a determination.

That's what the prosecutor does when charging the crime. If there's evidence to support it, the jury will hear it and make that determination.

A defendant is always free to argue that the victim is making up the level of pain. "It couldn't have hurt THAT badly." Good luck with that.

 

[HoughMade]

So, there is the notion that an aggressor "takes the victim as he finds them." A policy that ignores some people are more easily injured/less pain tolerant than others would effectively treat them as less important.

"Well, most people only feel a broken nose at a level of 3 on a scale of 1-10. That you felt it at an 8 is your problem."

Plus, in a way, I think it reflects how a jury would handle the situation. Let's say we had a system that allowed/required a special verdict from the jury on how much pain someone felt. That it was something a jury would have to make a finding about. They would listen to the testimony from the victim, perhaps some medical testimony, and then make a determination.

That's what the prosecutor does when charging the crime. If there's evidence to support it, the jury will hear it and make that determination.

A defendant is always free to argue that the victim is making up the level of pain. "It couldn't have hurt THAT badly." Good luck with that.

-3 for not using the phrase: "eggshell thin skull".

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Texas definition seems a bit more objective.
PC Ch 1, Sect 1.07, Para (46): 46) "Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ.

I'm with NyleRN. Pain seems a wildly imprecise "measure". My wife can bump into a door from walking through the doorway and be in agony. After cutting and stacking brush I'll find scratches, small lacerations, a couple splinters, and not have been aware of them before I saw them. People roll pain and suffering into a single thing, but I think of it as "pain" = the physical sensation, "suffering" as the emotional reaction to it. Getting slapped by a stranger hurts and pisses you off, but getting slapped by a spouse will engage a whole new level of "suffering."

Texas law cited. Rhino owes me a case of .45acp.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Yup.....that is a serious west side beat down. Fits the definition to a "T" and yes, if not an S.D. scenario there will be charges.

Hmm, the elements of a West Side beatdown from my youth:

1. Someone is wearing work boots.
2. Everyone needs a hair cut and/or shave.
3. Someone is wearing a shirt that is a size too small or too big.
4. Everyone is in blue jeans.

 

[CampingJosh]

Texas law cited. Rhino owes me a case of .45acp.

For comparison purposes, not because he thought Texas law applies everywhere. I think this one is going to require a ruling.

 

[T.Lex]

-3 for not using the phrase: "eggshell thin skull".

I think you mean +4 for thinking about it and rejecting the cliche.

 

[NyleRN]

Like T.Lex said, it's not perfect but it's workable. If I interview someone as a battery victim (which for me, generally means shot or stabbed), I'll always ask about pain, scarring, missed work, lingering affects, etc. I'll also note my own observations as to injuries still visible and the time elapsed, if you appeared to be in distress, etc.

While you can't measure it, as I'm sure you know by the "RN" part of your name, you can observe it. Few folks have the ability or inclination to fake it, particularly with me as I can't prescribe them pills...if anything men tend to understate it. I'm not sure if it's an attempt to salve the ego or to look "hard" or what. "Did it hurt when he stabbed you four times with the screwdriver" gets me one of two answers. One, they look at me like I've just went full retard and say something like "*expletive* yeah, it hurt" or I'll get a shrug and "not really. I didn't even realized it happened until four days later at Rugby championships when I noticed a little blood on my ribs."

I understand what you're saying there. I would most certainly want a judge/prosecutor/jury to have objective and measurable examples before getting ready to take the accused rights/privileges away

 

[Kirk Freeman]

For comparison purposes, not because he thought Texas law applies everywhere. I think this one is going to require a ruling.

I'll fight this all the way to the INGO Court of Appeals!

 

[T.Lex]

I'll fight this all the way to the INGO Court of Appeals!

I do not want to see those briefs.

 

[Alamo]

I'll fight this all the way to the INGO Court of Appeals!

Lemme guess, the ICOA meets in a certain closet courtroom in the basement of a certain not-courthouse?

 

[SwikLS]

I read through the whole thread and didn't see this question asked. Is or could the use of mace/pepper spray cause SBI or are there cases where its was classified as causing SBI?

I'm thinking in terms of if you use mace/pepper spray in defense of yourself from non lethal force but because a prosecutor thinks the pain or injury caused SBI then your use of force exceeds the force used against you and you're then charged with aggravated assault or something.