What is a radical Islamist?

[Kutnupe14]

Sorry, just jumping in. So by your standard does our "ally" Saudi Arabia, count as a radical Islamist country? And given the distinction that they are an "ally," does this mean that the United States supports radical Islamists.... to the turn of billions of dollars annually? It is my contention that Sarsour easily falls to the left of the Saudi Kingdom, and while she has stated some things to give pause, she is hardly a radical Islamist.

 

[Think]

My own very uninformed opinion is that relatively few really give a rats patootie about whether there is a true distinguishable difference between Islamists and Islam. Any religion that has a confirmed subset of individuals who believe in the murder of innocent people ( I believe the word is jihad ) including women and children makes it difficult to want to express either empathy or even a desire to differentiate between the two. I believe public perception is that because Muslems who subscribe to Islam seem to be reluctant, at best, to outwardly condemn the actions of ISIS ( composed of Islamists if I understand correctly ). Additonally, I believe too few Muslems subscribing to the tenets of Islam are inclined to reach out in public venues to establish a dialogue with Christians. My uneducated opinion is that the Muslem community remains close knit without any desire to communicate with those of differing religious views. My belief is that Muslims are afraid that the commingling of Christianity and Muslem practioners will result in a diminution of the Muslem strict adherence to their teachings. It's difficult to make converts of Christians, or even gain support, when Muslems remain a closed demographic.

The definition of "Islam" is to surrender to God. Those who fulfill the five pillars of Islam are called "Muslims". The term"Islamist" is a vague term. Regarding killing women and children, this can be found only in OT. Prophet Muhammad was very clear in his orders to avoid any danger to them during wars. Studies showed that extremists' knowledge on Islam is very little. For example, Prophet Muhammad said that Muslims fighting each others will go to hell. My opinion is that non-Muslims don't engage in this dialogue with Muslims. Most mosque, especially in Trump era open their doors for Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. Many open days were organized. I have a post in another thread explaining many issues: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...scussion-all-things-islam-51.html#post7114136
Relevant links:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/mar/26/muslims-condemn-terrorism-stats
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-is-not-a-dirty-word/?utm_term=.d9fbe74b2ac5
Study Finds Radicalized Muslims Have Little Actual Knowledge Of Islam

 

[T.Lex]

One benefit to this thread is that it is useful every once in awhile to see who raises their hands to certain questions....

 

[KLB]

Looks like this pretty much went in the direction I expected it to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

A man named Mohamed Noor?

He's a radical Islamist,'eh?

 

[Kutnupe14]

One benefit to this thread is that it is useful every once in awhile to see who raises their hands to certain questions....

Lol, yep

 

[MCgrease08]

Sorry, just jumping in. So by your standard does our "ally" Saudi Arabia, count as a radical Islamist country? And given the distinction that they are an "ally," does this mean that the United States supports radical Islamists.... to the turn of billions of dollars annually? It is my contention that Sarsour easily falls to the left of the Saudi Kingdom, and while she has stated some things to give pause, she is hardly a radical Islamist.

Admittedly I’m no expert on the geopolitical intricacies of Saudi Arabia. I know they’re an absolute monarchy and the king is bound by decree to comply with Sharia, so they certainly check off at least one of the boxes inherent to Islamism.

I don’t think the Royal Family has any desire to be the center of a true Islamic state in the sense of what most Islamists are working toward. They have too much power and there’s too much money flowing into the country to allow anything to upset the current dynamic. Because the royal family controls nearly all aspects of the government it keeps power concentrated in the hands of relatively few. Wikipedia tells me this has actually led to heated opposition from Islamists inside the country, and more terror attacks in recent years. Because dissent isn’t allowed in public, it’s tough for opposition to organize and mount an uprising. So it would appear the monarchy has been doing everything it can to clamp down on Islamism in the country.

Now to your point about Linda Sarsour. Islamist or not, she does seem to be revealing more of her extreme views lately.

I can point to her keynote speech at last month’s Islamic Society of North America’s National Convention.

You know, the same organization that invited al-Qaeda co-founder Anwar Al-Awlaki to deliver a keynote speech on “tolerance” just days before the 9/11 attacks.

[video=youtube_share;vm5BwqdkedE]http://youtu.be/vm5BwqdkedE[/video]

And then just this week Sarsour used her platform on the Women’s March group’s Twitter account to celebrate the birthday of Assata Shakur, a black militant who killed a New Jersey state trooper in a 1973 shootout. A convicted cop-killer Sarsour calls a “revolutionary.”

She [Shakur] escaped from prison more than 30 years ago and is currently on the FBI’s most wanted list. When CNN’s Jake Tapper called her [Sarsour] out on the tweets she tried to tie him into the alt-right.

So to if you ask me if Sarsour is an Islamist, I’d say, “if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck… well then, it’s probably a duck."

 

[indiucky]

Now to your point about Linda Sarsour. Islamist or not, she does seem to be revealing more of her extreme views lately.
And then just this week Sarsour used her platform on the Women’s March group’s Twitter account to celebrate the birthday of Assata Shakur, a black militant who killed a New Jersey state trooper in a 1973 shootout. A convicted cop-killer Sarsour calls a “revolutionary.” So to if you ask me if Sarsour is an Islamist, I’d say, “if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck… well then, it’s probably a duck."

I do not think of her as an "Islamist"......I think she is more of a self promoting "Sarsourist" in the vein of Al Sharpton....She uses her religion and ethnicity to promote leftist ideology the same way Al Sharpton uses the title "Reverend" and his race to promote leftist ideology....

I believe this to be so....She is marching against the NRA and is against the second amendment......I can not fathom any Muslim, radical or not, being for any form of gun control.....She wears her hijab as a talisman against criticism...And that pretty messed up.....

I'll tell you this...If she were a belly dancer I would pay to see her show...To see her take all that pent up angst and put it in a dance number would be quite satisfying and would show my willingness to appreciate other cultures....

She seems to hate women.....A lot....

 

[1DOWN4UP]

He's a radical Islamist,'eh?

He may not be...but I am sure he is a xxxxing idiot.

 

[Kutnupe14]

He may not be...but I am sure he is a xxxxing idiot.

Actually, given how he's handled the situation so, is say the contrary. Now, if you said he had a case of the nerves, and couldn't handle himself under the pressure, I think we'd find common ground.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I do not think of her as an "Islamist"......I think she is more of a self promoting "Sarsourist" in the vein of Al Sharpton....She uses her religion and ethnicity to promote leftist ideology the same way Al Sharpton uses the title "Reverend" and his race to promote leftist ideology....

I believe this to be so....She is marching against the NRA and is against the second amendment......I can not fathom any Muslim, radical or not, being for any form of gun control.....She wears her hijab as a talisman against criticism...And that pretty messed up.....

I'll tell you this...If she were a belly dancer I would pay to see her show...To see her take all that pent up angst and put it in a dance number would be quite satisfying and would show my willingness to appreciate other cultures....

She seems to hate women.....A lot....

This makes much more sense. Like so many "leaders" of various movements across the United States, they seem more concerned with their personal noteriety than the actual causes they say they represent. If you look at Sarsour's history, she has often taken positions that would increase her public profile.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Actually, given how he's handled the situation so, is say the contrary. Now, if you said he had a case of the nerves, and couldn't handle himself under the pressure, I think we'd find common ground.

. Given the current pressure and what just happened in Minn.,I would say that nerves was half the case.But to shoot at someone whom you do not even see,(firecracker noise or not)from the passenger seat,over your partner,thru the driver's door,and to find out it was a woman in pajamas,and to have been on the force for 21 months,and have three other complaints,I still say he is a idiot.

 

[jamil]

I do not think of her as an "Islamist"......I think she is more of a self promoting "Sarsourist" in the vein of Al Sharpton....She uses her religion and ethnicity to promote leftist ideology the same way Al Sharpton uses the title "Reverend" and his race to promote leftist ideology....

I believe this to be so....She is marching against the NRA and is against the second amendment......I can not fathom any Muslim, radical or not, being for any form of gun control.....She wears her hijab as a talisman against criticism...And that pretty messed up.....

I'll tell you this...If she were a belly dancer I would pay to see her show...To see her take all that pent up angst and put it in a dance number would be quite satisfying and would show my willingness to appreciate other cultures....

She seems to hate women.....A lot....

I think there is a lot of truth to that but ultimately I think she is agenda driven and she's playing a roll. She has an Islamist's view of women.

 

[BugI02]

[snip]
I don’t think the Royal Family has any desire to be the center of a true Islamic state in the sense of what most Islamists are working toward. They have too much power and there’s too much money flowing into the country to allow anything to upset the current dynamic. Because the royal family controls nearly all aspects of the government it keeps power concentrated in the hands of relatively few. Wikipedia tells me this has actually led to heated opposition from Islamists inside the country, and more terror attacks in recent years. Because dissent isn’t allowed in public, it’s tough for opposition to organize and mount an uprising. So it would appear the monarchy has been doing everything it can to clamp down on Islamism in the country.

I would speculate that The Royal Family has taken a page out of the Communist/Socialist playbook and focused attention on external enemies (the West). They fund radical fervor, as long as it's outside their borders; and use this to keep the focus/pressure off their internal inconsistencies

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I can understand how some can be "radicalized" if they are illiterate and have a radical mullah who "tells" them what their religion is... they could think that violent jihad is their duty to Allah.

But, what of the educated and literate? I've read parts of the Koran that support violence, but I've also read parts that forbid it. How do they resolve this conflict within the Koran? Surely it isn't up to the individual to pick and choose... for example, many (though not all) Christian denominations believe the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament.

What are the methods that different sects of muslims use to resolve such conflicts within their guiding book?

 

[MCgrease08]

An interesting report out of the UK. It appears some 400 British nationals who left the UK to join ISIS have returned home. This is playing out in many Muslim countries too, as thousands of ISIS members have returned to their home countries. Some of them children.

More than 400 British Isis jihadis have already returned to UK, report warns

Thousands of Isis fighters have already returned to their home countries amid confusion over the number of foreign jihadis remaining in the dwindling caliphate, a new report has found.

Research by The Soufan Centre estimated that at least 425 British Isis members have so far returned to the UK – the largest cohort in Europe.

But there are fears many have “disappeared” from the view of security services, who will not publicly confirm how many returnees have been jailed or are being tracked.

Of the 850 people known to have travelled to warzones in Syria and Iraq from the UK, around 100 are women and 50 are children.

Richard Barrett, the author of the report, said: “As the so-called Islamic State loses territorial control of its caliphate, there is little doubt that the group or something similar will survive the worldwide campaign against it so long as the conditions that promoted its growth remain.

“Its appeal will outlast its demise, and while it will be hard to assess the specific threat posed by foreign fighters and returnees, they will present a challenge to many countries for years to come.”

Mr Barrett said former fighters’ attitudes to Isis varied dramatically between those who rejected the group, became disillusioned, or were forced to retreat in battle.

This guy wasn't pulling punches when he discussed what should be done.

Rory Stewart, an international development minister, said that the only way to deal with most potential returnees was to kill them.

“They are absolutely dedicated, as members of the Islamic State, towards the creation of a caliphate, they believe in an extremely hateful doctrine which involves killing themselves, killing others and trying to use violence and brutality to create an eighth century, or seventh century, state,” he told the BBC.

“So I’m afraid we have to be serious about the fact these people are a serious danger to us, and unfortunately the only way of dealing with them will be, in almost every case, to kill them.”

 

[Crittersdad]

My is that radical Islamist fits the majority.

If you doubt me read the Koran

 

[Kutnupe14]

An interesting report out of the UK. It appears some 400 British nationals who left the UK to join ISIS have returned home. This is playing out in many Muslim countries too, as thousands of ISIS members have returned to their home countries. Some of them children.

More than 400 British Isis jihadis have already returned to UK, report warns

This guy wasn't pulling punches when he discussed what should be done.

Tough case to determine. I think you might be able to justify life imprisonment for all of them, but to apply the death penalty, IMO, it would appropriate to prove their crimes justifying such. Remember, that in the early days of ISIS, they viewed simply as just another Syrian opposition group, and people joined to oppose Assad that for ideological purposes.

 

[Wolfhound]

I am reminded of the quote "a radical Muslim wants to cut your head off. A moderate Muslim wants a radical Muslim to cut your head off. " I can't remember who said it. Possibly Mark Steyn.

 

[Drail]

I can not see how anyone could actually read the Koran and believe that Islam is "just" a "religion". It is an insane cult. It doesn't matter "why" they believe they must slay infidels and rape 6 year old girls and demand you bow before their "Prophet" - it only matters that they have been doing it for thousands of years. One huge problem in the countries they are coming from is that all of their "rules" are written in the Koran and almost none of them can even read. They must believe what some of the old men tell them it says. The idea that Trump keeps touting that we need to "vet" them better is absurd. Most of them do not even have a birth certificate or know what year they were born. Or where. They have no criminal arrest record because those countries don't keep records. How can you possibly do a background check on people like that? Sweden has gone from being the rape capitol of Europe to the rape capitol of the world. I read a story yesterday describing 12 Muslim men raping a 7 year old girl in a hotel room. The girl's father was standing outside screaming and trying to stop it. The police showed up and arrested the father. You can't make this stuff up. Many police departments in Sweden now will not even listen to anyone filing a rape charge. They have given up. We are watching Europe commit suicide and still letting these people into our country.