What makes a good "defensive" levergun?

[three50seven]

I'll confess, I didn't read all the replies, but this is something I have thought about quite a bit. My choice is a Rossi 92 in .357 with a 16" barrel. I have one, and it accompanies me on road trips and camping trips where a scary black rifle may not be welcome.

- Yes, the short barrel limits capacity, but we are talking defensive here.
- Replacing the factory buckhorn sights with an aperture of some sort helps with quick target acquisition.
- These rifles handle easily and point naturally. They do typically require a break-in though. The actions smooth-out quite a bit after a couple hundred rounds.
- .357 Mag in a handgun is a proven stopper. It's effectiveness is greatly increased when fired through a 16" bbl.
- Even with full-power .357's, recoil is negligible (the same can't be said for .44 mag).
- There are a lot of choices for defensive .357 and .38 ammo.

Just my thoughts. Not arguing with anyone else's choices.

 

[Michigan Slim]

I wouldn't hesitate to grab up my 73 if the occasion requires it. I run thousands of rounds a year through it and have utmost confidence in her. My daughter feels the same about her 73 and Marlin both. The 73's are .357 and the Marlin is .44 mag. All hold ten.
Reloads are quick if you practice. We do them on the clock.

 

[hoglegs]

Excellent write up, I have often pondered this myself and my brother, living in the peoples republic of IL, is now doing the same. I think I'm leaning towards a 357 if we are to believe the results of BBTI. The 357 out of a rifle is screaming at ~2000fps while the 44 is doing 1500, so a slight improvement in trajectory with some FTX's? Also the 357 me at ~1200 isn't far behind the 44 at around 1400. Load 125gr for 2 legged, 180gr for 4 legged & less recoil to boot. Maybe even gain some capacity running +p 38spl? Just my , don't own one yet...
Whats the consensus on reliability of lever makes/models for DGU?

 

[diver dan]

GOOD DEFENSIVE AMMO , LOL , SORRY , HAD TO SAY IT.

 

[Route 45]

Be sure that your handgun ammo performs well at the increased velocity of a 16" + barrel. JHP ammo designed for a 4 inch barrel is usually not designed to handle 2000 fps, and may come apart and underpenetrate at that speed.

I would not generally pick a lever action for a defensive long gun, as what a lawyer may think is the least of my concerns. If you're sitting at the defense table and a lawyer is trying to put you away, you've done something wrong that has nothing to do with weapon selection.

If you absolutely have to have a fudd gun, a wood stock Remington or Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun is much more devastating at typical self defense range than anything you can stuff into a lever action rifle/carbine, and the action is less fussy under stress. An M1 carbine or Mini-14 adorned with wood furniture is also in the "less scary" category.

Of course, one could always put Hello Kitty stickers on it to ward away the bad lawyer.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

A 16 inch barrel lever points very easily and is easy to maneuver. I don't think I'd hesitate to use one defensively though it wouldn't me be my first choice. The bad guy won't care if you use 357 or 44. I could see a light but given the platform I wouldn't add a red dot. The simplicity of design is the beauty of the platform and a dot wouldn't match and it's one more thing to fail. Irons rarely fail but could be tough in low light with or without a wml. Given my limited experience I would go for a short barrel for maneuverability over the capacity of a longer barrel.

 

[Tombs]

Something with a short throw in 357 would be my pick.

I'm actually not entirely sure who does the shortest throw.

 

[Frontiersman]

Looks to me like you answered all your own questions.

For home defense -

I would say... Any of the handgun cartridges will do the job in close quarters. Any of the rifle cartridges would be overkill.

A short barrel for maneuverability.

I'd leave off any of the "black gun" accessories, least it look too tactical in court. The more it looks like something grandpa had, the better.

 

[92FSTech]

Funny the reliability issue would come up in this thread right now. My brother just texted me tonight from out of state...his Marlin 1894 in .357 stopped locking the hammer back/won't stay cocked. I tried to troubleshoot as best as I could over text, and even took apart one of mine to see what is going on in there.

I think we have it narrowed down to the trigger safety block spring not applying return pressure to the trigger, as it'll stay cocked if he manually pushes forward on the trigger as he cocks the hammer. Either the spring is broken, or it's somehow out of position. I can't tell without seeing it. It may have to wait until next time I'm out there.

Point being... they do break.

 

[Goodcat]

A well outfitted lever gun can make one hell of a fine defensive weapon. Costa and many others have proven their merits and abilities. I love shooting them. However, I would NEVER take one over an AR, AK, M1 carbine, or similar.

 

[Goodcat]

Looks to me like you answered all your own questions.

For home defense -

I would say... Any of the handgun cartridges will do the job in close quarters. Any of the rifle cartridges would be overkill.

A short barrel for maneuverability.

I'd leave off any of the "black gun" accessories, least it look too tactical in court. The more it looks like something grandpa had, the better.

Looks to me like you answered all your own questions.

For home defense -

I would say... Any of the handgun cartridges will do the job in close quarters. Any of the rifle cartridges would be overkill.

A short barrel for maneuverability.

I'd leave off any of the "black gun" accessories, least it look too tactical in court. The more it looks like something grandpa had, the better.

That is bad advice. Rifle cartridges and handgun cartridges will penetrate extremely similar in real world drywall scenarios, and have magnificently different stopping power. Handguns suck. Period.

What are you talking about leaving “black gun” accessories off because it will look too tactical in court? This makes absolutely zero sense. You take every tactical advantage you have if defending your family and home in a fight.

You don’t want a weapon light to properly PID your target? Or a quality RDS to aim quickly and surgically? A sling for proper weapon movement, retention, and manipulation? You own every round that leaves that barrel.

 

[wcd]

That is bad advice. Rifle cartridges and handgun cartridges will penetrate extremely similar in real world drywall scenarios, and have magnificently different stopping power. Handguns suck. Period.

What are you talking about leaving “black gun” accessories off because it will look too tactical in court? This makes absolutely zero sense. You take every tactical advantage you have if defending your family and home in a fight.

You don’t want a weapon light to properly PID your target? Or a quality RDS to aim quickly and surgically? A sling for proper weapon movement, retention, and manipulation? You own every round that leaves that barrel.

Have to agree here. If you’re concerned about taking off accessories because it will look too tacticool in court. There are much larger problems here.

 

[snapping turtle]

Maybe even gain some capacity running +p 38spl? Just my , don't own one yet...
Whats the consensus on reliability of lever makes/models for DGU?

in most marlin 1894 357/38 the shape of the bullet nose makes a lot of difference in how they feed into the barrel. Many of the “plinker rounds” do not feed well.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What brands and models failed?
Any Henry's?

We both had Marlins in .357s. Fritz's guns were smith'd up to the max (he had take down models made but he is investor-class), I just had trigger and sights (XS sights) done.

They all turned to mush. Second time around I had one survive but the foreend pin snapped off and it was loose was I slid the foreend back and forth as I was working the underlever. Clint told me to knock it off, lol.

Lever guns are fine guns, as long as they are not shot. They developed the "rugged" nonsense reputation from the Horse Operas of the 1950s. The half-life of Fudd Lore is FOREVER.

Take a Henry to a carbine class, I would expect similar results but admit not to know.

 

[warren5421]

If you know what you are doing you can keep the lever gun topped off and never run empty till you used up all the ammo. The AR when you are changing mags you are out of the fight. The lever gun was the first assault gun that carried more than a single or 2 shots. 13 rounds beat the single shot musket hands down which the Henny had. The Spencer had 7 or 8 rounds. I reach for the lever gun more than the AR.

 

[Hookeye]

I think the better non auto choice would be a Remington 7615.
Never bought into the lever gun for defense stuff.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

If you know what you are doing you can keep the lever gun topped off and never run empty till you used up all the ammo. The AR when you are changing mags you are out of the fight. The lever gun was the first assault gun that carried more than a single or 2 shots. 13 rounds beat the single shot musket hands down which the Henny had. The Spencer had 7 or 8 rounds. I reach for the lever gun more than the AR.

There were multiple guns that carried more than 1 or 2 shots, just ask Lewis & Clark.

Learned to carry cartridges between my fingers and in my mouth. Still rather have an AR, I know it will work, reloading is smoother.

 

[BigMoose]

Ammo is a concern for me. I have seen the Hornady .44 mag Leverrevolution on deer in close quarters and if you don't hit bone (like a shounder or spine) it flys right through unopened and doing damage as it goes. Sure, through and throughs are expected with the .44 but when it comes out the other side still carrying the mail you might hurt someone you didn't want to. JMHO.

Leverrevolution is one of the -most- misunderstood rounds known to man.

It's not soft point. It's made to give leverguns a round that is a pointy aerodynamic spitzer type bullet. With the corresponding balistic coefficient, and without chain fire.

"LEVERevolution® represents a breakthrough in ammo design for lever action rifles and revolvers. The key to its innovation and performance is the patented elastomer Flex Tip® technology of the FTX® and MonoFlex® bullets. Safe to use in tubular magazines, these bullets feature higher ballistic coefficients and deliver dramatically flatter trajectory for increased down range performance."

A no point does in mention anything related to mushrooming like a proper soft point does.






Now let me give you some food for thought, with the proliferation of Body Armour.

45-70

Now it won't penetrate Body Armour.. no.. But the pounds of force on said armor has been proven -extremely lethal-
It won't go through the armor, it will shove the armor into their torso like a truck hitting it would.

 

[nipprdog]

I think the better non auto choice would be a Remington 7615.

Love mine

 

[Hookeye]

I guess folks cant change an AR mag before the gun runs dry?
How much time does it take to change an AR mag and get a fresh 30 rounds .... compared to repeatedly single loading a tube mag to keep it " topped off" ?