What permit do I need to carry?

[benjaminlee06]

I just moved back to Indianapolis from Cincinnati, where my wife and I were for the last two years. Prior to move I had, and still have, an IN lifetime carry permit. I took a course and got the Utah permit before moving to Cincinnati so that I would be covered. With the move back I just got done updating my address with Utah and the IN State Police. With my Utah permit, is there any need to carry my IN permit on me? Or can I just carry my Utah permit? If I can would there be any reason to carry both? Thanks!

 

[eldirector]

Indiana law was recently updated, and you are no longer required to CARRY your license, only to BE licensed.

As an Indiana resident, I don't believe your Utah permit means much here. Residents must have an IN LTCH, not a non-resident permit from another state.

That said, life may be easier if you just keep the LTCH in your wallet. On the off chance a cop wants to see it, rather than call you in.

I have both in my wallet. Love using my UT permit as a second photo ID. I also leave my wallet at home a lot (on accident, or on purpose - hard to tell), and don't sweat it.

 

[injb]

As far as I know most states that recognize out of state licenses only recognize them for people who are not residents. Otherwise everyone could just go for the cheapest/easiest one and not bother getting a license from their own state.

 

[chipbennett]

Indiana law was recently updated, and you are no longer required to CARRY your license, only to BE licensed.

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

 

[level0]

I have both in my wallet. Love using my UT permit as a second photo ID.

Oooh I did not know the Utah permit has pictures! Now I'm more interested in getting one, and in fact will get one.

 

[level0]

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

 

[eldirector]

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

OK. I won't. Carry it, I mean. I'll still make the assertion. Livin' on the edge, and all that.

 

[Hammertime]

Who teaches courses for the Utah Permit here in indy? I've been meaning to get a Utah one.

 

[benjaminlee06]

Thanks guys. I went ahead and put both in. I try to keep as little in my wallet as possible and the main thing was my laminated permit just needed a god trim.

 

[NHT3]

Who teaches courses for the Utah Permit here in indy? I've been meaning to get a Utah one.

We have a guy that does the Utah class once a month at Parabellum.. I think it's on the website but if not call the range and they can give you the info.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-- [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&quot] /[/FONT][FONT=&quot] RSO[/FONT]

 

[EyeCarry]

-snip- Love using my UT permit as a second photo ID. -snip-

Most of the time I just get asked for "an ID" not a photo ID. I don't do it much but from time to time I will whip out the Larry just to see the look on their face. I even had one cashier tell me it was not a legal/valid ID!

 

[CZB1962]

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

Not only may you have to appear in court, it may be the morning after you are released from jail after posting bond.

This language was passed so that people who accidentally went out in public with their gun and left their wallet, purse, fanny pack, etc with their LTCH in it would not be convicted of not having a LTCH. It does not remove your burden of proof. It simply means you will win the eventual court case that will follow.

Simple logic will tell you this is the case. I don't think anyone is arguing that you must possess a LTCH in order to carry in Indiana. Does anyone actually believe that when confronted by a LEO that he/she is somehow obligated to just take your word for it? "Of course i have insurance, a drivers license, and a LTCH officer"

After all, no one ever lies to the police to get out of a crime.

 

[Hammertime]

We have a guy that does the Utah class once a month at Parabellum.. I think it's on the website but if not call the range and they can give you the info.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

Copy that! Thank you!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

I'm not so sure of that, Chip. With the BMV records now tied (indirectly) to the LTCH database, an officer can verify your LTCH based on your DL #. No need to spend a night behind bars or go see a judge. Now, granted, the burden of proof is on you to prove you're licensed, but that can be by verifying your ID (with a DL or state ID card, for example) and telling them "I don't have my LTCH with me, but here's my ID if you'd like to confirm I'm telling you the truth.

As always, the person's manner will go a long way to determine how this goes down. Start off with either silence or "am I being detained?" and continuing in that vein will likely lead to the officer exercising his discretion to not confirm it for you. Conversely, "Yes, Officer, I'm licensed to carry, here's how you can confirm that. How else can I assist you in clearing up any questions?" will probably be far less displeasing a result for you.

Some will undoubtedly now claim that this is "sucking up" or kowtowing, sacrificing liberty, etc. I don't see it that way. To me, this is simple courtesy and good manners, like we should all have been raised to use. I'll give back what I get. If the officer treats me with civility and good manners, I will return them in like form. I have yet to have one do otherwise.



Blessings,
Bill

 

[BADWOLF]

Here again if IC has changed that you are no longer required to have your licence on your person does not the enforcement change? IE. Police just ask for your ID and call in to see if your handgun licence is valid. Instead of giving you grief of not having it on you. I see the state making the change to cut down on unnecessary cases the prosecutor gets handed putting the burden on the officer to verify a licence holder..

 

[HoughMade]

1) Not having your LTCH on you can possibly cause a hassle. Should it? No. It's a good thing nothing ever happens that shouldn't happen, right?

2) I don't understand the resistance to carrying this little piece of paper or plastic. If you forget, that's one thing and the change of law to not require it on your person would be helpful, but all this discussion means people are thinking and planning to avoid carrying 1/8 ounce of card when they carry 15 to 28 ounces of gun.

There's something I'm not understanding here.

 

[cobber]

I really wish people wouldn't make this assertion, without providing full context. If you'd rather have to appear in court to produce your LTCH, rather than have it on hand when demanded to produce it by LEO (which they still have the authority to do, if they know you're carrying), then by all means, don't carry your LTCH with you.

Ah, but even having the document in your possession is not proof you are not currently suspended, or haven't been revoked...

1) Not having your LTCH on you can possibly cause a hassle. Should it? No. It's a good thing nothing ever happens that shouldn't happen, right?

2) I don't understand the resistance to carrying this little piece of paper or plastic. If you forget, that's one thing and the change of law to not require it on your person would be helpful, but all this discussion means people are thinking and planning to avoid carrying 1/8 ounce of card when they carry 15 to 28 ounces of gun.

There's something I'm not understanding here.

Relativity?

 

[chezuki]

Might not matter much longer anyway. I heard the lifetime license is going away January 1st.

 

[cobber]

Might not matter much longer anyway. I heard the lifetime license is going away January 1st.

 

[SwikLS]

I don't understand the resistance to carrying this little piece of paper or plastic. If you forget, that's one thing and the change of law to not require it on your person would be helpful, but all this discussion means people are thinking and planning to avoid carrying 1/8 ounce of card when they carry 15 to 28 ounces of gun.

There's something I'm not understanding here.

4th Amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Terry vs Ohio was a landmark SCOTUS case in the 1960s. In that case, the court said (paraphrasing), a person may be temporarily detained if there is reasonable articulable suspicion a person has committed a crime, is committing a crime, or will commit a crime.

Scenario 1 - A man is walking down the street open carrying a firearm. Some Moms Demand type calls 911 to complain and giving no information about criminal activity just reporting that a man is walking down the street carrying a firearm. She give no information about herself (not that it could be verified over the phone anyways) other than to say she is a "concerned" citizen. Police show up, make contact with the man, and ask for his LTCH.

Scenario 2 - A man walks into a gas station open carrying a firearm. He grabs a drink and walks to the counter to pay for it. The cashier asks him if he is legal to carry a firearm. The man laughs and says, "No but don't tell anyone." He pays for his drink, leaves the store and walks down the road. The cashier calls 911 and gives an account of the events, along with a description of the man, and the direction he left the store. Police show up, make contact with the man, and ask for his LTCH.


One of these scenarios has Reasonable Articulable Suspicion of a crime and one does not. Yet under Indiana law in both scenarios you are required to submit your LTCH.