What questions to ask / be aware of when taking a class?

[Tactically Fat]

Jackson, I hope you'll be all over this thread. I'm jealous of your critical thinking and evaluation skills when it comes to this kind of thing.

Soon, a fellow INGO Mod and I will be taking a class from a new training company operating out of west-central Indiana. The price is extremely inexpensive (for now), I had the day free, plus it's near my parents so I can see them when the class is over. Mr. Mod and I signed up mostly to kind of evaluate the trainer/class to see if we can recommend it to others.

So - how to really evaluate the training as to A) give good feedback to the trainer, and B) give a good review here on INGO?

What questions should I ask of the trainer when it comes to drills/skills? Ask applicability/practicality? I know there'll be a short "vehicle unit" in the class - and I'm already apprehensive about it as far as applicability/practicality in every day life. Might it be fun to do...sure. Necessary for Joe Lunchpail? Not so sure.

What would you be on the lookout for in taking a class from an upstart / unknown?

 

[eldirector]

Specific to firearms, or evaluating a trainer and/or curriculum in general?

My first thoughts:
- What skill level is assumed as a prerequisite of the course? Was it published prior? Was it accurate? Does the trainer assume more/less? Was the terminology used in the course appropriate for the incoming skill/knowledge level?
- Are different learning modes addressed in the material? In the activities? By the instructor?
- How was the size of the course? Too large (hard to manage, too much idle time, no individual attention, etc...) or too small (covered material too quickly, not enough questions, etc...)?
- How well did the instructor handle going off-script? How was their "classroom management" skills/style? Could they keep the group moving forward productively?
- Were the course goals clearly stated? How and when was progress measured? Did the material and activities build as the course progressed?
- How applicable where the scenarios to real life? Did they support the stated course goals?
- Could the activities/scenarios be completed by all of the students? Safely? With sufficient time (or too much time) to drill/practice? Simpy used as examples, or to gain mastery?
- Are follow-up activities, reading material, etc.. given to continue learning/growing upon course completion?

Sorry for the shotgun style list. I might be able to dig up some of my old assessment rubrics if folks are really interested, or turn the above into something.

 

[Tactically Fat]

eldirector: Thanks! That's a good start.

From the few photos/videos the guy has on the business FB page...I'm honestly not sure how things will go from a "flow" standpoint. I am hopeful that it won't be a day completely wasted!

 

[17 squirrel]

What questions to ask / be aware of when taking a class?

WWJYD in this situation....

 

[David Rose]

The most important question you can ask any instructor is "why?".

The quality of the answer will tell you a lot about the quality of the instructor.

A good follow-up question to the instructors answer is "why?".

This will help to establish the depth of knowledge the instructor has on a given subject.

Yes, this may come off a little bit like having a conversation with a small child, but a good instructor should not be turned off by honest questioning.

 

[Coach]

Does Joe Lunchpail drive around in a car?

Can the instructor take what he/she know and transfer it to you? Is there anything more important than that?
Perhaps it is more important that they know something. How did you judge that? Being cheap and conveniently located is nice but is that the deciding factor?

 

[Onionsanddragons]

There are so many good answers to this awesome question already!

My big ones are:
If the instructor provides that first-level why to consider doing XYZ up front, I take that as a good sign.
If an instructor sets specific goals and standards as an expectation, both for handling and shooting, that's a good sign.
A clear method for measuring progress or diagnosing and correcting issues is something I want to see.

As to vehicle skills, it depends on what skills are being discussed. No; Joe Lunchpail does not need to practice how to assault a car. Joe Lunchpail good benefit from some dry practice at deployment in a vehicle, and other unique issues being in a vehicle can present, with a blue gun or SIRT. Who here knows what their draw from seatbelted looks like, or that time from holster?

 

[Hiker1911]

1. How to greatly increase comfort level with a particular handgun?
2. How to very significantly increase skill level with a particular handgun?
3. How to operate the handgun safely, effectively, and continually practice never pointing the handgun in an unsafe direction?

 

[Tactically Fat]

Thank you all so much for your feedback so far. I do appreciate it.

As far as the vehicle stuff.... I can definitely see some of it being applicable. Especially if working on drawing while in the vehicle and utilizing the door/pillar as concealment. But one FB video I saw had a guy exit the vehicle, walk around behind it to the other side, and then engage targets. For me and my ignorance; that seems kind of out of the realm of Joe Lunchpailing and into "LEO teaching LEO how to do LEO stuff". I'm willing to learn, however.

Coach: Price and proximity are what really kind of pushed me over the edge, so to speak, and into registering. I want to look into this school and see what they're about - to see if they're worth investing further funds into or not. Or if I can, in full faith, recommend them to other people...especially his lower level beginner classes. I want to take some of your classes, too...I just can't get my schedule to jive...yet.

My training resume isn't as long as I'd like it to be, but I'll be looking at this class through the lens of what I have had: Handgun I with Steve Fisher (When he was with MDFI), ACT's DP101 with the Virays, Rob Pincus's Combat Focus Shooting class (condensed), and a condensed shotgun class with Chris Frye of MDTS, and a MUC class with Paladin Combatives.

 

[chezuki]

Soon, a fellow INGO Mod and I will be taking...

wait... You're a mod? You must be in disguise.

 

[JollyMon]

As far as the vehicle stuff.... I can definitely see some of it being applicable. Especially if working on drawing while in the vehicle and utilizing the door/pillar as concealment. But one FB video I saw had a guy exit the vehicle, walk around behind it to the other side, and then engage targets. For me and my ignorance; that seems kind of out of the realm of Joe Lunchpailing and into "LEO teaching LEO how to do LEO stuff". I'm willing to learn, however.

Gun fights are often static and use only a square range and only require you to shoot from one position.

use purple as necessary.


But back you your question at hand.... if you are questioning any of the exercises or training, ask them to relate the drills to real life situations where you might have to utilize the said skill. Normally, the instructor can/will give a situation that you didn't even think of.

 

[Coach]

Thank you all so much for your feedback so far. I do appreciate it.

As far as the vehicle stuff.... I can definitely see some of it being applicable. Especially if working on drawing while in the vehicle and utilizing the door/pillar as concealment. But one FB video I saw had a guy exit the vehicle, walk around behind it to the other side, and then engage targets. For me and my ignorance; that seems kind of out of the realm of Joe Lunchpailing and into "LEO teaching LEO how to do LEO stuff". I'm willing to learn, however.

Coach: Price and proximity are what really kind of pushed me over the edge, so to speak, and into registering. I want to look into this school and see what they're about - to see if they're worth investing further funds into or not. Or if I can, in full faith, recommend them to other people...especially his lower level beginner classes. I want to take some of your classes, too...I just can't get my schedule to jive...yet.

My training resume isn't as long as I'd like it to be, but I'll be looking at this class through the lens of what I have had: Handgun I with Steve Fisher (When he was with MDFI), ACT's DP101 with the Virays, Rob Pincus's Combat Focus Shooting class (condensed), and a condensed shotgun class with Chris Frye of MDTS, and a MUC class with Paladin Combatives.

I think you are thinking things through really well. I get that vehicle can be a waste or exactly what you need. I just wanted to throw out there that most of us spend a lot of time in vehicle and around them. Plenty of crime happens in parking lots.

 

[Tactically Fat]

wait... You're a mod? You must be in disguise.

Poorly worded. Mea Culpa.

I think you are thinking things through really well. I get that vehicle can be a waste or exactly what you need. I just wanted to throw out there that most of us spend a lot of time in vehicle and around them. Plenty of crime happens in parking lots.

Understood...and thanks.

 

[Jackson]

I'm getting called out a lot in the T&T forum here lately. :-) This is going to ramble a bit.

I think eldirector did a pretty good job of summarizing what to consider when evaluating a class. I don't have a lot to add to the other posts. I don't actually go in to most classes with the goal of evaluating or critiquing them. When I take a class I try to go with an open mind, take a bunch of notes, and soak it all in. I don't ask a ton of questions, but when I do, they'll be along the lines of "why" as David Rose mentioned. If I know something else is commonly taught as a solution to the same problem, I may ask for their take on the other solution, or why they prefer this one. In general though, I let them teach the class.

When I write the AAR I try to make it an accurate picture of what happened so the reader can make up their own mind. I do put in a conclusion or a summary which is my opinion, but I try to keep that separate. My critique or evaluation doesn't usually happen until I'm compiling my thoughts to write the AAR. This is when I have the best opportunity to look at the class as a whole. It's hard to see the big picture when in the middle of things.

The first thing I consider when I'm developing my opinion is the stated goal of the class. This is something I typically write down in my notebook and then put right at the top of my AARs. If the instructor doesn't state what he wants students to take away, or it isn't in the course description when you sign up, it might be something to ask. Everything else in the class should be judged by how well it supports the stated goals and objectives. Do the drills and exercises tie back to the objectives? Does the lecture/discussion match the goals? Does the lecture/discussion match the drills? Sometimes I try to come up with my own name for the class based on the content. This helps me figure out what I think the class was really about and what its focus was. It's not really an evaluation tool, just something to help me get my head around the material.

Another thing I put in some of my AARs is my reason for taking the class. This is probably the most important thing from a personal standpoint. What are my personal goals? This may be the same or different from the instructors course objectives. Either way, I need to understand what I want to get out of it. I judge the class based on whether I achieved those goals. This is usually the most important for me. I have only taken three classes with the express purpose of writing a review. All the others were for self improvement. If I improved or took away what I needed, the class was worthwhile. If I didn't, it wasn't. If your primary goal is to evaluate the class, take that same concept and apply it to the other students. Try to assess their backgrounds and their goals and determine whether the class is providing what they need. Observe them, how the instructor interacts with them, and whether you see improvement in your classmates throughout the class.

All instructors have biases and assumptions based on their background. This will have an impact on what they teach and how they teach it. I try to keep that in mind when I'm evaluating what is being taught. How does this technique fit in to the world the instructor comes from? How does this technique fit in to my world? What is similar and what is different about those things?

There are really only a couple of good ways to evaluate techniques and tactics. One is by experience, either in the real world or in simulations, drills, or Force on Force. Each of which have their advantages and disadvantages. This can be pretty fuzzy though. Just because something worked for a person a couple times in real life does not mean it's the ideal way to perform. It may also work under one set of circumstances and not under another. If we're talking about more specific skills (like a method of drawing from the holster or operating the trigger), those can be objectively measured for an individual with a timer or a scored target. This would be real life testing but it may be out of context. Either way, some amount of testing may be necessary. First the instructor should be able to articulate why it works and based on what evidence. Then you should be able to take it home and play with it and see if it works for you. It may take more than a few reps to give a new technique a good workout. You have to drill it some to determine whether it's a keeper.

The other is by comparison to methods taught by other instructors and using some logic and experience to determine what makes sense for who and under what circumstances. This requires having been exposed to several methods or several perspectives on the same problem. It sounds like you've been to two or three other pistol classes. You'll be in a position to hold the techniques taught in this class up against techniques and methods taught in those other classes and see how they compare. If they are similar, that reinforces what you've learned. If they are different, maybe some testing and evaluation is necessary to sort out what works.

Anyway, I don't really evaluate trainers or classes. I make it my aim to take away as much as I can and write a detailed review. The process of that review sometimes brings me to observations or conclusions about the class. Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but I think some of the other folks gave some great ideas.

 

[Jackson]

Also, I probably wouldn't critique or offer feedback to an instructor unless they specifically asked me to do so.