What to carry

[ashby koss]

I believe Coach would agree, training is NOT punching paper at the range once a month. Training is testing yourself and your gear. The best training I've engaged in that tested me, my competence and my gear is the concealed carry match Coach hosts at Parabellum. The only pressure there is 20 other shooters watching and a timer running but I've seen people fold like a cheap lawn chair under that slight amount of pressure. If you are convinced you are prepared I would suggest coming out to one of the concealed carry matches and show the rest of us how it's done. You can never have enough realistic training.
One more thing.. I often hear people say they have never had a malfunction. If you've never had a malfunction you haven't participated in nearly enough training. I have a couple thousand rounds through two different Glocks, one I compete regularly with and one I carry. I have never had a malfunction with either that I can attribute to the pistol. I have had malfunctions but every one I can attribute to a magazine or the ammo. If you do any significant amount of training you will have malfunctions. Knowing the procedure to clear a malfunction should be something you do without thinking.

Realizing what you don't know is the beginning of wisdom. Realistic training will teach you what you don't know.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

Thank guys for derailing. I really just wanted to know in a bad situation does the human tend to resort to training or natural muscle memory or both and which would you prefer. My training is my business not yours.

 

[NHT3]

Thank guys for derailing. I really just wanted to know in a bad situation does the human tend to resort to training or natural muscle memory or both and which would you prefer. My training is my business not yours.


Threads do tend to get derailed here but I think most INGOers don't intentionally derail a thread. Most here are simply trying to be helpful and you asked a question that someone else can't answer. Your initial question was about which of the two options presented were best, a G-23 or 1911. Then you ask another question about how people react under stress so in a way you derailed your own thread. How can anyone else know what you would resort to under extreme stress? I believe I would resort to my training but my "belief" has never been tested under stress.
You are correct, and if you aren't interested in training it's your life on the line and your business.. I appears to me that you have gotten some good advice. Carry what you think you can reliably defend yourself with and only you can decide which one of the two options you presented will work best for YOU.
You may find some guidance in regards to what people do in stressful situations in the quote below from the Unnamed Navy Seal.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[Dean C.]

Thank guys for derailing. I really just wanted to know in a bad situation does the human tend to resort to training or natural muscle memory or both and which would you prefer. My training is my business not yours.

Training is what creates muscle memory. The 1911 is what I would consider a "professionals" gun requiring a large amount of additional practice over say a Glock for example. If you aren't willing to put in the time and effort don't carry a 1911.

 

[chezuki]

If you aren't willing to put in the time and effort don't carry a gun.

FIFY.

 

[ashby koss]

Thank guys for derailing. I really just wanted to know in a bad situation does the human tend to resort to training or natural muscle memory or both and which would you prefer. My training is my business not yours.


Threads do tend to get derailed here but I think most INGOers don't intentionally derail a thread. Most here are simply trying to be helpful and you asked a question that someone else can't answer. Your initial question was about which of the two options presented were best, a G-23 or 1911. Then you ask another question about how people react under stress so in a way you derailed your own thread. How can anyone else know what you would resort to under extreme stress? I believe I would resort to my training but my "belief" has never been tested under stress.
You are correct, and if you aren't interested in training it's your life on the line and your business.. I appears to me that you have gotten some good advice. Carry what you think you can reliably defend yourself with and only you can decide which one of the two options you presented will work best for YOU.
You may find some guidance in regards to what people do in stressful situations in the quote below from the Unnamed Navy Seal.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

i do agree to your quote of the unnamed marine, perhaps this could be attributed to nearly every marine. I never said i don't train, just simply that my training would be the same regardless of platform (obviously diferent due to platform but the time and effort the same)

 

[Dean C.]

FIFY.

I was trying to be nicer than I usually am

 

[Route 45]

I'm still curious as to why you are stuck on one pistol or the other, when you say yourself that neither is optimal for one reason or another.

 

[Dean C.]

I'm still curious as to why you are stuck on one pistol or the other, when you say yourself that neither is optimal for one reason or another.

It sounds to me like OP has either a Glock 23 or a Ruger SR1911 Commander and is trying to pick between the two. Now I could be wrong but that seems to be the case to me.

If that is actuakkt the case I would say OP carry the Glock, sorry I don't think Ruger makes a 1911 that I would personally feel comfortable carrying.

 

[Route 45]

It sounds to me like OP has either a Glock 23 or a Ruger SR1911 Commander and is trying to pick between the two. Now I could be wrong but that seems to be the case to me.

Yeah, I get that. So, is the OP not allowed to trade or buy another pistol that more closely meets his needs? That's what I'm asking.

If I've only got bologna and ham in the fridge, but what I really want is a chicken sandwich, I'll probably go out and buy a chicken sandwich.

If that is actuakkt the case I would say OP carry the Glock, sorry I don't think Ruger makes a 1911 that I would personally feel comfortable carrying.

I'd agree with you here. Reliability beats minor differences in accuracy, so long as you're not throwing shotgun patterns at 7 yards. The extra capacity is a bonus. And who gives a **** if you scuff a Glock?

 

[Dead Duck]

Yeah, I get that. So, is the OP not allowed to trade or buy another pistol that more closely meets his needs? That's what I'm asking.

If I've only got bologna and ham in the fridge, but what I really want is a chicken sandwich, I'll probably go out and buy a chicken sandwich.

Great!
Now I'm hungry again.

 

[D.R.SCOTT]

If you trust your ability with your 1911 then by all means it is the best gun in the world for you, without a doubt stick with it.

Guns are tools for self defense, and you wouldnt try to hammer a bunch of nails with a wrench right? Its as simple as carrying what you can shoot the best and then matching to the occasion or "Job". You have the right idea of the pistol being used to get you to rifle already.

Have you thought about both? I carry a J-frame when going to a wedding, Ruger Sp101 when out and about in town, but a full sized CZ-P09 when I'm operating a tow truck at 2 a.m. If you don't like carrying more than one gun for different days, then don't. I got used to by having a rifle with a grenade launcher attached, rocket launcher, and pistol on me all at once, and switching between a revolver and an auto dosnt bother me at all. Some it would, if it does then dont do it. But its something to consider.

If you dont like striker fired, dont get one. If you do like them, get one. Just be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both and use it to fit your tool to its job. I like Hammers myself, im a single/double no safety kind of guy.

You can argue about size and caliber with others, but yet again those things change depending on the person and things like age, eye sight, weight and height and physical capabilities. Maybe ideal laboratory test can be used to argue a preference for caliber, but the reality outside the lab is a shot from a .22 that hits does more damage to the target than a whole magazine of 45acp that misses.

Fun fact, I have a friend that carrys a desert eagle. Lots of people think its silly when they hear it, but when they see he is 6 ft 8 and 300+ pounds and that he can palm a semi truck battery like a basket ball it makes more sense. He had trouble with a full sized Glock being too small for his hands and handles 50AE like most people handle 9mm. I mention it because people have a tendency to recommend things that work for them and not for the individual. I cant tell you what you like, you know yourself the best out of all of us, but I can say that when you find what works for you don't let others sway you away from it.

 

[doddg]

If you trust your ability with your 1911 then by all means it is the best gun in the world for you, without a doubt stick with it.

Guns are tools for self defense, and you wouldnt try to hammer a bunch of nails with a wrench right? Its as simple as carrying what you can shoot the best and then matching to the occasion or "Job". You have the right idea of the pistol being used to get you to rifle already.

Have you thought about both? I carry a J-frame when going to a wedding, Ruger Sp101 when out and about in town, but a full sized CZ-P09 when I'm operating a tow truck at 2 a.m. If you don't like carrying more than one gun for different days, then don't. I got used to by having a rifle with a grenade launcher attached, rocket launcher, and pistol on me all at once, and switching between a revolver and an auto dosnt bother me at all. Some it would, if it does then dont do it. But its something to consider.

If you dont like striker fired, dont get one. If you do like them, get one. Just be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both and use it to fit your tool to its job. I like Hammers myself, im a single/double no safety kind of guy.

You can argue about size and caliber with others, but yet again those things change depending on the person and things like age, eye sight, weight and height and physical capabilities. Maybe ideal laboratory test can be used to argue a preference for caliber, but the reality outside the lab is a shot from a .22 that hits does more damage to the target than a whole magazine of 45acp that misses.

Fun fact, I have a friend that carrys a desert eagle. Lots of people think its silly when they hear it, but when they see he is 6 ft 8 and 300+ pounds and that he can palm a semi truck battery like a basket ball it makes more sense. He had trouble with a full sized Glock being too small for his hands and handles 50AE like most people handle 9mm. I mention it because people have a tendency to recommend things that work for them and not for the individual. I cant tell you what you like, you know yourself the best out of all of us, but I can say that when you find what works for you don't let others sway you away from it.

1. Different tools for different applications: well said!

 

[Tactically Fat]

Listen to Rhino, Coach, NHT3, and as much as I hate to say it, Chezuki. :-)

 

[chezuki]

Listen to Rhino, Coach, NHT3, and as much as I hate to say it, Chezuki. :-)

You may have earned space in my sig line.

 

[rhino]

Fun fact, I have a friend that carrys a desert eagle. Lots of people think its silly when they hear it, but when they see he is 6 ft 8 and 300+ pounds and that he can palm a semi truck battery like a basket ball it makes more sense. He had trouble with a full sized Glock being too small for his hands and handles 50AE like most people handle 9mm. I mention it because people have a tendency to recommend things that work for them and not for the individual. I cant tell you what you like, you know yourself the best out of all of us, but I can say that when you find what works for you don't let others sway you away from it.

I'm surprised that anyone owns a Desert Eagle that is reliable enough to be used as a carry gun! Training and practicing is going to get spendy with 50AE!

 

[Tactically Fat]

You may have earned space in my sig line.

I'm honored!

I'm surprised that anyone owns a Desert Eagle that is reliable enough to be used as a carry gun! Training and practicing is going to get spendy with 50AE!

You know as well as I do that he does not, in fact, train and practice with the DEagle in .50AE.

 

[rhino]

I'm honored!



You know as well as I do that he does not, in fact, train and practice with the DEagle in .50AE.

Oops!

 

[ashby koss]

If you trust your ability with your 1911 then by all means it is the best gun in the world for you, without a doubt stick with it.

Guns are tools for self defense, and you wouldnt try to hammer a bunch of nails with a wrench right? Its as simple as carrying what you can shoot the best and then matching to the occasion or "Job". You have the right idea of the pistol being used to get you to rifle already.

Have you thought about both? I carry a J-frame when going to a wedding, Ruger Sp101 when out and about in town, but a full sized CZ-P09 when I'm operating a tow truck at 2 a.m. If you don't like carrying more than one gun for different days, then don't. I got used to by having a rifle with a grenade launcher attached, rocket launcher, and pistol on me all at once, and switching between a revolver and an auto dosnt bother me at all. Some it would, if it does then dont do it. But its something to consider.

If you dont like striker fired, dont get one. If you do like them, get one. Just be aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both and use it to fit your tool to its job. I like Hammers myself, im a single/double no safety kind of guy.

You can argue about size and caliber with others, but yet again those things change depending on the person and things like age, eye sight, weight and height and physical capabilities. Maybe ideal laboratory test can be used to argue a preference for caliber, but the reality outside the lab is a shot from a .22 that hits does more damage to the target than a whole magazine of 45acp that misses.

Fun fact, I have a friend that carrys a desert eagle. Lots of people think its silly when they hear it, but when they see he is 6 ft 8 and 300+ pounds and that he can palm a semi truck battery like a basket ball it makes more sense. He had trouble with a full sized Glock being too small for his hands and handles 50AE like most people handle 9mm. I mention it because people have a tendency to recommend things that work for them and not for the individual. I cant tell you what you like, you know yourself the best out of all of us, but I can say that when you find what works for you don't let others sway you away from it.

Holy Shaq hands Batman! Palm a truck battery?! Glock frame being too small?! Wow....

 

[JoeG1]

carry the gun you are comfortable with, both physically and mentally. It should be something that you can wear all day with no issues. Practice with it a lot.