What would ATF say if this were you?

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  • CarmelHP

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 14, 2008
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    Carmel
    Audit: ATF lost 76 weapons, hundreds of laptops

    By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 10 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping.

    b

    Thirty-five of the missing handguns, rifles, Tasers and other weapons were stolen, as were 50 laptops, the internal audit found. Two of the stolen weapons were used in crimes.
    The audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine found "inadequate" oversight of weapons and laptops resulted in "significant rates of losses" at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
    "It is especially troubling that that ATF's rate of loss for weapons was nearly double that of the FBI and DEA, and that ATF did not even know whether most of its lost, stolen, or missing laptop computers contained sensitive or classified information," he added.
    In a Sept. 10 letter responding to the audit, ATF acting Director Michael J. Sullivan said his agency "agrees or partially agrees with most of the recommendations."
    "We are revising our procedures of reporting losses of weapons or laptops," Sullivan said.
    The audit looked at ATF's inventory of weapons, laptops, ammunition and explosives between Oct. 1, 2002 and Aug. 31, 2007.
    It found that ATF lost three times more weapons each month than it had in a similar 2002 audit by the Treasury Department, which used to oversee the agency. It also lost 50 times as many laptops as reported in the earlier audit.
    Of the 76 weapons, 35 were reported stolen, 19 lost and 12 missing from inventories, investigators found. Of the 418 missing laptops, 50 were stolen, 8 lost and 274 could not be found during inventory. Another 86 laptops were unaccounted for because ATF had either destroyed or lost documents showing where they were, the audit concluded
     

    MilitaryArms

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    Apr 19, 2008
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    The whole organization needs to go away. It's always been a screwed up mess, at least during my life it has been. The whole Waco debacle exemplifies their ineptness as a law enforcement agency.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
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    Mar 20, 2008
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    Franklin Township
    What the BATFE needs is oversight. They have had a very bad habit lately of making up their minds about something, then reneging and turning people into instant felons based upon their own faulty judgement. They need a standardized set of guidelines, especially in the firearms technology branch, and congressional oversight.
     

    Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
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    Apr 26, 2008
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    Where's the bacon?
    Of the 76 weapons, 35 were reported stolen, 19 lost and 12 missing from inventories, investigators found.
    76 lost weapons
    -35 stolen
    -19 lost
    -12 missing from inventory
    ---
    10 unaccounted for. Where are the other ten. Also, what is the difference between lost and missing from inventory?

    Yes, if they raided a gun store and found two missing guns, the owner would likely lose his FFL at a minimum, forcing him out of business. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Have fun at the unemployment office, boys.

    Blessings,
    B
     
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    Apr 12, 2008
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    I don't know if you're serious or not, but there is a member on this board who would buy it from you if you really have one, minus the spring of course.

    If I did have an illegal post '86 machinegun I sure wouldn't be posting on the internet about it. Atkins Accelerator + similar sized spring somewhere in a junk drawer that you forgot about years ago = constructive possession. I was just using that as a specific example as to when the ATF Firearms Technology branch changes it's mind - thankfully, in this case, nobody got in trouble for it.
     

    haldir

    Shooter
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    Jun 10, 2008
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    Goshen
    Why don't I ever get any of these lost guns? :-(

    Next to other great ATF moments (Ruby Ridge, Waco) this doesn't seem so bad.
     
    Rating - 0%
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    Apr 12, 2008
    166
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    Why don't I ever get any of these lost guns? :-(

    Next to other great ATF moments (Ruby Ridge, Waco) this doesn't seem so bad.

    Hang out with the right people and on enough shady street corners, and you, too, can have your very own firearm stolen from the ATF! Bonus points if it's a machinegun!
     

    PEARCE

    Plinker
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    Sep 14, 2008
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    nah to oversight

    What the BATFE needs is oversight. They have had a very bad habit lately of making up their minds about something, then reneging and turning people into instant felons based upon their own faulty judgement. They need a standardized set of guidelines, especially in the firearms technology branch, and congressional oversight.

    The answer to every problem in government is to launch a probe, a committee, or an oversight branch. I wish I could form a committee when my water heater. We can get together three weeks after it was broke. Our first meeting would be about our own benefits, second would be lunch choices, and lastly to schedule meeting number two. In the second meeting we discuss why it's broke, how it could of been prevented, and deliberate on whose fault it is. Months later I will have a broken water heater and the committee would collect paycheck after paycheck without really doing nothing. On second thought, my a committee is a bad idea.

    Oversight is a quick answer that congress throws at a problem to make it look like they are doing something... when in fact the problem will continue to exist.

    If you want to better the ATF, you need to have management in the likes of Elliot Nash or J. Edger Hoover. They need to be strict and hold his/her bureau to the strictest of standards.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
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    Mar 20, 2008
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    Franklin Township
    I'll continue to contend that they need oversight. They should not be able to pass rulings that are not laws, but hold citizens accountable as though they were. The congress passes laws, not BATFE. This is why they need oversight. Next time they pass some arbitrary ruling, congress needs to smack them across the skull and say "down boy! you don't have authority to do that!"
     

    Scutter01

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    Mar 21, 2008
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    I'll continue to contend that they need oversight. They should not be able to pass rulings that are not laws, but hold citizens accountable as though they were. The congress passes laws, not BATFE. This is why they need oversight. Next time they pass some arbitrary ruling, congress needs to smack them across the skull and say "down boy! you don't have authority to do that!"

    Can we add the FCC in with that too?
     
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