What you guys think about this electric truck?

[schmart]

Why not have a smaller battery pack, say something with 200-250mi unloaded range, and a small fuel generator with modest fuel tank to extend range, especially when under load?

For a long time, I've thought the same about an electric pickup. However, I recently watched a youtube video where the team used a Tesla X to tow a 5K trailer up the Ike Gauntlet. The on-board demand showed that the vehicle consumed 1.8Kw/mile. At 60 Mph, that would require just over a 100KW generator or 135HP to keep up. That's not exactly a small generator, and conditions would be much worse for a 14K trailer as being touted by Tesla. Granted, this is likely worst case, but does cause me pause when thinking of pulling a 10K travel trailer into a 40Mph headwind. I'm afraid it would quickly get into the same situation as the BMW Rex that doesn't have enough power to keep the vehicle moving. It would have to have a mode that enabled the generator to self charge the batteries when stopped (alongside the road even! )

Where I do think an electric pickup will shine is with contractors who stay "local" and don't take the vehicle on all day trips. Add an inverter to power the jobsite trailer from the batteries and you eliminate a portable generator. For these users, cutting the mileage by 1/3 down to 150-175 miles will still let them go all day and get back to the shop to charge. It may have to be coupled to an upgraded electric service as the charger would need to draw about 80 amps for 10 hours to recharge overnight, but if the shop is otherwise unused overnight it may still work out.

--Rick

 

[CHCRandy]

This reminds me of when I was like 16-17 years old and working at the golf course. We had electric golf carts that we were always having to charge. I hated putting carts on and off chargers. One day I was sitting around with some higher ups with Public Service (now Duke) and started telling them how I wanted to invent a golf cart that would charge itself, simply by moving. Batteries would start the motion then generator mounted to drive would generate power to keep batteries charged. They laughed me out of the pro shop...started giving me theories on why it wouldn't work.

I now hear about kinetic braking creating energy and such.....I often wonder if them guys were right or wrong, but electric is so over my head I have no clue.

My question.......was they right?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This reminds me of when I was like 16-17 years old and working at the golf course. We had electric golf carts that we were always having to charge. I hated putting carts on and off chargers. One day I was sitting around with some higher ups with Public Service (now Duke) and started telling them how I wanted to invent a golf cart that would charge itself, simply by moving. Batteries would start the motion then generator mounted to drive would generate power to keep batteries charged. They laughed me out of the pro shop...started giving me theories on why it wouldn't work.

I now hear about kinetic braking creating energy and such.....I often wonder if them guys were right or wrong, but electric is so over my head I have no clue.

My question.......was they right?

I'm no electrical engineer/electrician either, but I think the difference between the kinetic brake energy being used to charge the batteries only works because it's "out of the loop" so to speak. What you were talking about almost sounds like using an inverter hooked to a battery, and then plugging a battery charger in to the inverter to charge the battery. That won't work. That's almost getting into something like a perpetual motion machine.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm no electrical engineer/electrician either, but I think the difference between the kinetic brake energy being used to charge the batteries only works because it's "out of the loop" so to speak. What you were talking about almost sounds like using an inverter hooked to a battery, and then plugging a battery charger in to the inverter to charge the battery. That won't work. That's almost getting into something like a perpetual motion machine.

What you're looking for is "counter-emf".
the generator creates resistance.
It will never generate as much as what it is using.

For instance, there is something called a motor-generator. Used to convert AC to DC, and DC to AC.
But, each way you go, there is efficiency loss.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

What you're looking for is "counter-emf".
the generator creates resistance.
It will never generate as much as what it is using.

For instance, there is something called a motor-generator. Used to convert AC to DC, and DC to AC.
But, each way you go, there is efficiency loss.

Why does it seem like this should go in the Insane Social Justice thread?

 

[Percolater]

I'm in somewhat the same situation, but with closer to 900 mile drives to western KS. I've tried to justify electric just like you, but I'd have to take a different route and drop down to I-70 to stay near chargers. This would add another 75 miles to the route. Coupled with needing to charge for between 60 and 90 minutes in the trip, it would add a significant amount of time to the trip. Even if I accepted that, my last trip wouldn't have even been possible w/ an electric as I was coming back through Kansas City during the storm on Dec 15. by going north at KC and across US36/I72 I stayed out of the ice along I70 and was able to make it back (albeit it took 50% longer than normal). With electric, I can't currently take that route as there is NO charging available between KC and Springfield IL. Even there it isn't high speed. Coupled to the reduced range due to cold, I would have been stuck.

I've wanted an electric vehicle for 30+ years, but cannot justify one with the current crop of vehicles and infrastructure. As I take 4 to 5 similar trips/year, renting for the trip isn't cost effective either. However, I am glad for the early adopters that are paying for the technology improvements so someday it may be possible for me.
--Rick

Impressive if you can drive 900 miles straight, without any significant breaks. I have to think a majority of people wouldn't entertain quite the adventure, and automakers won't have motivation to make such range even possible.

 

[actaeon277]

Impressive if you can drive 900 miles straight, without any significant breaks. I have to think a majority of people wouldn't entertain quite the adventure, and automakers won't have motivation to make such range even possible.

Some people just stop to pee, and grab dinner in a drive through, eat on the road.

Not much time for charging there.
I used to do that from NWI to Orlando, and from NWI to upper state NY.

 

[Hawkeye]

There wasn't much elaboration above, especially with regards to use in pickup trucks which offer a lot more real estate than a compact car.

Tesla is claiming their top end Cybertruck would have 500mi of unloaded range, which would take a large and heavy battery pack (and why the truck's GVWR is going to be in SD/HD and not half ton territory). Why not have a smaller battery pack, say something with 200-250mi unloaded range, and a small fuel generator with modest fuel tank to extend range, especially when under load?

Assuming a 100kWh battery pack provides 250mi unloaded range, that's 4-5 hours endurance. The Volt has a 1.4L gas generator rated for 55kW and an 8.9gal fuel tank. Now I'm not an electrical engineer, but I'd think a similar setup, even in a larger/heavier vehicle, would allow the torque and around-town benefits of an EV while mitigating their range compromises, especially under load.

Company mission - Tesla is an Electric Vehicle company, not hybrids. I get what you are saying, but I think you are missing that point with the Tesla.

 

[avboiler11]

I’m not missing any point.

I’m simply using Cybertruck’s supposed max range as an example of what could be done in a similar, competing vehicle to match its range unloaded but exceed it while towing.

Don’t see Tesla doing any ICE range extender...but perhaps GM, Ford, FCA?

 

[actaeon277]

People who talk the talk about being willing to pay extra to save the environment, might just get a chance to do that.
EVs use the roads. Roads still need to be maintained.

 

[schmart]

Impressive if you can drive 900 miles straight, without any significant breaks. I have to think a majority of people wouldn't entertain quite the adventure, and automakers won't have motivation to make such range even possible.

I've been making the trip with 1 rest area stop (5 minutes), 3 gas stations, 1 fast food stop and 1 sit down restaurant. Sometimes I'll stop in Kansas City Cabelas to walk around a bit instead of the sit down restaurant.

The biggest point I was trying to make, on the route I take, there aren't ANY public chargers available between Kansas City, and Springfield IL. That is over 300 miles with no charging available. I can't make that with any of the Tesla fleet nor the new Mach-E even in the summer. I've talked to people driving a Bolt and they get about 50% range in the winter so there isn't even a chance to "coast" into the charger. If I had to drop down from Springfield to I70 just for charging points, the last trip, weather on I70 was much worse than going across US36 (Ice vs snow). With the reduced range, the worse weather, the added miles to take I70... I wouldn't have made it in one day, and that was only a 600 mile trip, not 900...

--Rick

 

[schmart]

This reminds me of when I was like 16-17 years old and working at the golf course. We had electric golf carts that we were always having to charge. I hated putting carts on and off chargers. One day I was sitting around with some higher ups with Public Service (now Duke) and started telling them how I wanted to invent a golf cart that would charge itself, simply by moving. Batteries would start the motion then generator mounted to drive would generate power to keep batteries charged. They laughed me out of the pro shop...started giving me theories on why it wouldn't work.

I now hear about kinetic braking creating energy and such.....I often wonder if them guys were right or wrong, but electric is so over my head I have no clue.

My question.......was they right?

Overall, they were right. The kinetic braking does re-capture the energy from the vehicle in motion, and extends the range of the vehicle, but the vehicle still consumes more energy driving that it gets back when slowing down. That's why we have to have chargers for electric vehicles, instead of finishing the trip with more power than we started with. Don't feel bad though, there have been millions of people with similar ideas and it exactly that kind of thinking outside the box that has got us where we are now, especially with Hybrid and Electric vehicles.

--Rick

 

[Percolater]

6th annual "Bug Bounty Program" rewards hackers up to $1mil if they can expose vulnerabilities or hack a Tesla. Smart move since these vehicles are essentially tech on wheels. Sounds like previous years events have largely borne fruit, with several security features developed and updated.

https://electrek.co/2020/01/10/tesla-hacking-challenge/

 

[CHCRandy]

Overall, they were right. The kinetic braking does re-capture the energy from the vehicle in motion, and extends the range of the vehicle, but the vehicle still consumes more energy driving that it gets back when slowing down. That's why we have to have chargers for electric vehicles, instead of finishing the trip with more power than we started with. Don't feel bad though, there have been millions of people with similar ideas and it exactly that kind of thinking outside the box that has got us where we are now, especially with Hybrid and Electric vehicles.

--Rick

Is there a way though to use the drive train as a generator with kinetic braking? I mean for instance, you hit the gas, the batteries give the motor juice and you start moving, at that point generators in the axle drive line then starts generating power...as you let off gas pedal and are coasting or going downhill the generator is still generating energy for the batteries. Can a generator driven by the source motor not create equal power needed by said motor?

I am by no means an electrical guy, that's why I am asking. It's such a simple concept I am sure many people have tried this and there is a scientific reason it won't work.

 

[Route 45]

Is there a way though to use the drive train as a generator with kinetic braking? I mean for instance, you hit the gas, the batteries give the motor juice and you start moving, at that point generators in the axle drive line then starts generating power...as you let off gas pedal and are coasting or going downhill the generator is still generating energy for the batteries. Can a generator driven by the source motor not create equal power needed by said motor?

I am by no means an electrical guy, that's why I am asking. It's such a simple concept I am sure many people have tried this and there is a scientific reason it won't work.

Yes. This is exactly how the Toyota hybrid system works. Energy is returned to the battery when you coast or brake. The generator unit also charges the battery when the gas engine is in operation.

[video=youtube;jNuixuVhc5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNuixuVhc5E[/video]

 

[Percolater]

Amazon throwing more money at Rivian for a electric van. https://www.teslarati.com/amazon-prime-electric-delivery-van-by-rivian/

This could lead to an excellent camper with all wheel drive and a little clearance added