What's Wrong with Magazine Disconnects?

[Hohn]

Roughly [STRIKE]1/3[/STRIKE] 3/3rds of the ADs that result in injury/death I see would have been prevented by [STRIKE]a magazine disconnect[/STRIKE] adherence to the four rules. It can be an extra layer of safety.

BTW, my Victory has a magazine disconnect, and an excellent trigger.

ETA: I'm going for clever, but I'm afraid this is coming off as smart***, so please don't take it as such.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

BTW, my Victory has a magazine disconnect, and an excellent trigger.

ETA: I'm going for clever, but I'm afraid this is coming off as smart***, so please don't take it as such.

Mostly true, but people are fallible.

 

[walt o]

CRAIG APS the reason for any safety is to stop the movement of the hammer or striker .Blocking the trigger or sear are the most usual way. SO block the trigger with the mag disconnect .On 1911 you block the seat /thumb safety the trigger / grip safety F/P with the trigger with a linkage and pin

 

[Dean C.]

Because I hate them and they are stupid, also because they make dry firing a pain as you have to insert a magazine (Another opportunity for a live round to accidentally be chambered as well). It is just silly and I am almost sure the only reason they exist is to get the required number of "Points" necessary to be imported into the US per ATF regulations.

 

[ChootEm]

Let's assume you're being mugged and you draw your pistol on the assailant. He grabs the gun by the slide and a struggle ensues. In the course of tussling over the gun one of you hits the mag release. You now have a paper weight.

Or maybe you pocket carry and you accidentally engage the mag release while sitting down to dinner because your wife bought you new pants that are tighter than you're used to. Of course you don't know you've engaged the mag release, but an assailant confronts you as you leave the restaurant. You pull your pistol from your pocket and the mag drops free. Again, you are stuck holding a paper weight.

As others have said, I try to elimate as many potential points of failure as possible.

I have a TCP380 that is notorious for the above mentioned. Can't pocket carry it in jeans because it will always pop the mag release. If need be in jeans with the shirt tucked in it is still small enough to not print but pocket access would be nice. Part of me has been thinking about smoothing off the mag release to better match the contour of the grip but haven't had the nuts to do it yet.

 

[phylodog]

Unnecessart is a subjective turn to some un necessary to others necessary
Seat belts mandated by the gov. are uncomfortable. yet necessary or unnecessary.
Very 1911 come out that don't need some smoothing out of some parts .That is why we have so many 1911 expert gunsmiths. /Mag safetys = a safe gun on the night stand with 1 in the chamber and mag.out .slip in mag and you are ready to rock & roll , the kids can't get the gun to go bang w/o the mag in. Don't we ALL pratice mag changes as part of our training?s that not another added safety

Or a person could not leave a gun laying around for kids to play with, most kids above the age of five are going to know where the magazine goes when its laying next to the pistol.

In your scenario it would be a hell of a lot faster to leave the chamber empty and have a full magazine inserted. If you need a pistol in the middle of the night for defense this is going to be much easier to get ready than fumbling around in the dark half asleep with an adrenaline dump going on than attempting to get a magazine inserted.

Unnecessary isn't subjective in this instance.

 

[Drail]

Jeff Cooper made a valid point years ago when he said you need to set your house up so that you will be awakened when they try to get in your house and then force them to make even more noise to get down your hall to your bedroom. If you wake up and they are IN your bedroom - you have lost that battle. Most people, when suddenly awakened from a deep sleep, are NOT going to be even remotely "tactical". Cooper used a steel grate door at the entry to the structure and another in the hallway to the bedrooms. Years ago I lived in St. Louis and had a townhouse with steel grates on all of the windows and doors (this was before we had "homeowner associations"). I couldn't keep them out if they were determined and had tools but I was going to be fully awake and prepared once they got inside. And most bad guys will look at all that steel and just go somewhere else. Having to live in a house like that sucks but it worked. I grew up in St. Louis but I will never go back for any reason.

 

[JettaKnight]

The most common complaint is trigger feel can be effected. I've heard some folks complain about that the pistol would not be capable of firing the shot in the chamber if you were surprised while reloading, but that seems pretty far fetched to me. On the other hand, I know of at least one person who dropped the magazine in a struggle over the gun, then let the person have the gun while they went for a backup. I believe that's also an unlikely scenario, but less so than the surprised while reloading thing.

Roughly 1/3 of the ADs that result in injury/death I see would have been prevented by a magazine disconnect. It can be an extra layer of safety.

There's pro's and con's as BBI properly identified.

All the above + disassembly can get tricky. Try to disassemble / reassemble a Ruger 22/45 with and without a mag disconnect.

THIS. A magazine disconnect in target / hunting pistol is plainly dumb. The Ruger Mk III disconnect is absolutely horrible.

 

[Drail]

A Ruger MK pistol is not that difficult if you follow the instructions exactly. Try tearing down all the way to the trigger and reassembling a Browning High Power and then tell me you still think the Ruger is difficult. A pistol with a defective mag disco may not fire even if there IS a round in the chamber OR a magazine in the well. A mag disco is only going to provide a layer of safety for those who do not follow the Four Rules. Those people are beyond help regardless of ANY safety device built into the gun.

 

[JettaKnight]

A Ruger MK pistol is not that difficult if you follow the instructions exactly. Try tearing down all the way to the trigger and reassembling a Browning High Power and then tell me you still think the Ruger is difficult.

It's still fidgety and makes the trigger feel like junk.

A pistol with a defective mag disco may not fire even if there IS a round in the chamber OR a magazine in the well.

I think you meant AND.

A mag disco is only going to provide a layer of safety for those who do not follow the Four Rules. Those people are beyond help regardless of ANY safety device built into the gun.

BBI clearly identified a situation in a gunfight where a mag disconnect can save your life.


FTR, I don't own any guns with mag disconnects now.

 

[Tomahawkman]

I think all of the concerns with magazine disconnects can be avoided with proper training, but let's be honest not everyone will have the proper training, and those who do train probably don't have as much as they wish they had. That's just reality,

I highly doubt I will ever need my gun to fire without a magazine in the gun. But the few scenarios I can think that I would... I certainly want the gun to fire.

Having a chambered round and ejecting the magazine is not something I would really find myself doing unless perhaps an admin reload but at which point I would have time( hopefully ) to ensure the mag is seated. But it's those few scenarios that I would want my gun to fire which drives me away from guns that have them..

I don't encounter this issue at all because my EDC is a g19 and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Let's assume you're being mugged and you draw your pistol on the assailant. He grabs the gun by the slide and a struggle ensues. In the course of tussling over the gun one of you hits the mag release. You now have a paper weight.

Which, if you lose that struggle, may be a very good thing. Now, honestly, this is more of an LEO issue. If you're being mugged and you get tangled up over your gun before you've gotten rounds off, you did it wrong. Certainly not impossible, but not a huge risk.

IMO, there is a place for the magazine disconnect for the casual user, and that's a lot of folks. They would probably be better served with a revolver, but the mag disconnect makes a nice middle ground. I'm also not advocating every gun to have one. I'm just saying there's a reason it exists and it can be helpful for some people.

 

[JettaKnight]

IMO, there is a place for the magazine disconnect for the casual user, and that's a lot of folks. They would probably be better served with a revolver, but the mag disconnect makes a nice middle ground. I'm also not advocating every gun to have one. I'm just saying there's a reason it exists and it can be helpful for some people.

Your wishy-washy attitude and ability to see grey areas and nuances is not welcome here on INGO. Pick a side and defend it with over-zealousness.

 

[craigkim]

I only have one pistol with the mag disconnect, an FN Five-seven. I don't dislike the fact that the gun won't fire without a magazine, as much as the fact that... if I remember correctly, the firearm must have the slide racked after the magazine has been removed. So, you cannot admin load it and you cannot tac reload. If you drop the mag with one in the chamber you will have to rack out the live round in order to be able to fire again.

I bought it years ago and plenty of ammo to go with it otherwise I would have already moved it on to a new owner.

 

[rhino]

In a tense social situation, I'd rather have a one-shooter than a no-shooter.

Mag disconnects are also a pain in the patootie for shooting any of the action pistol sports where you have to unload and show clear at the end.

 

[Drail]

Yup.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Your wishy-washy attitude and ability to see grey areas and nuances is not welcome here on INGO. Pick a side and defend it with over-zealousness.

Oh, sorry.

Mag disco will getz you killt in da streetz.

-or-

You'll shoot your eye out, kid...without a mag disconnect.

I'll flip a coin then plant my flag.

 

[Tombs]

What happens if your magazine release gets bumped? That 1 shot that could have saved your life is now unable to be fired.

 

[rhino]

What happens if your magazine release gets bumped? That 1 shot that could have saved your life is now unable to be fired.

Yep, a one-shooter trumps a no-shooter every time.