When Animals Attack: Anaheim PD Edition

[sepe]

To add to the Sepe-provided info: Angry Anaheim crowd threw bottles at police, set fires on streets - latimes.com







Once again, representation of "wronged" party misses the mark.

I agree with ^^^ and throwing bottles, even if just pretty harmless water bottles, at the police is never a good idea. It was a pretty bad move shooting less than lethal into a crowd with kids though. Men and women, sure. I have no problem with crowd control if it is needed but the situation would have gotten really out of hand if a young child took a rubber bullet and it ended with a child dying.

It will be interesting to find out, if we do, what exactly happened with the shooting the brought the protesters out. If it was a bad shoot, I could understand the frustration of the community but from reading the comments from the deceased's aunt...I'm guessing he may have had several run ins with the law before.

 

[88GT]

Oh, to be sure, I am in no way condoning or excusing the behavior of LE in this scenario. And I am never a fan of the use of force in any measure by LE even while I understand in some situations it is necessary.

But we aren't talking about park-goers out for a stroll. Deliberately antagonizing the cops is not the way to make friends. Throwing things at them usually results in some return fire one way or the other.

 

[Indy317]

The problem is one that plauges the US now, so it seems. There is this culture of belief, especially in lower income areas, that criminals should be given a pass for "minor" crimes. We see it when burglars are shot and the family members are crying on TV about how the home owner was in the wrong for shooting someone "over property."

In this case, a person is said to have ran from the police. He was with two others, and for whatever reason, he ran. I don't know all the details, so I don't know if the cops were justified in trying to detain him or not, or if the shooting was justified. What happened later was that in another incident, a gang member was seen driving a stolen car. A pursuit was started, and two men and a woman ran from the vehicle once it slowed or stopped. One of the men was shot after, according to police, he fired a round at the cops. The other man was caught, and the story I read said they are still looking for the woman.

Even though a person shot at the cops, too many folks will be quick with the "cover up!" screams. They also won't think cops are justified in using deadly force, even if a person uses deadly force against the police. It is a typical mindset of some folks to give criminals a pass. Especially if the criminal is a loved family member, or maybe sharing the wealth of his/her crimes with others.

These are the types of situations that could boil over and lead to all out riots/looting.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

In this case, a person is said to have ran from the police. He was with two others, and for whatever reason, he ran.

Wouldnt that mean (more than likely) this man was shot in the back? I think in a situation like this, the police should be held to the same accountability as we would. Not sure what kind of crime would have had to taken place to make it ok for an officer to shoot someone in the back but

 

[Indy317]

Wouldnt that mean (more than likely) this man was shot in the back?

No. I don't know where the guy was shot, or what happened after the chase, or how long the foot chase even lasted. All I know is what was reported was that they were around a car, he took off running, and was shot in front of an apartment complex.

 

[lashicoN]

Coming to a "gun free zone" near you.

So we have ourselves a crowd of people upset at the local law, who are throwing rocks, etc. at the police, who in turn open fire into the crowd. This seems familiar. The officers weren't wearing red coats were they?

 

[Fargo]

The problem is one that plauges the US now, so it seems. There is this culture of belief, especially in lower income areas, that criminals should be given a pass for "minor" crimes. We see it when burglars are shot and the family members are crying on TV about how the home owner was in the wrong for shooting someone "over property."

Assuming that the police had a valid reason to Terry-stop this guy, which is appeared they did, how is not shooting him equivocal to "giving him a pass"? I dunno about CA law but it looks like at the time he was being chased, he was guilty of at most an A Misdemeanor here in Indiana. Not shooting him and "giving him a pass" don't seem to be the same thing at all. I'm not saying that the shooting was justified or unjustified or anything like that as I don't know, but I just don't see anyone wanting a "pass" given on this.

Even though a person shot at the cops, too many folks will be quick with the "cover up!" screams. They also won't think cops are justified in using deadly force, even if a person uses deadly force against the police. It is a typical mindset of some folks to give criminals a pass. Especially if the criminal is a loved family member, or maybe sharing the wealth of his/her crimes with others.

Who wants the guy driving the stolen car and shooting at the cops to be "given a pass"? The only reason that is news is because the same PD apparently shot an unarmed guy who was alleged to have committed no crime except flight at the sight of the cops. No one would be protesting except the dead mope's mom if the other guy hadn't gotten whacked in a way the local's deemed to be murder the day before.

These are the types of situations that could boil over and lead to all out riots/looting.

The first incident, absolutely. The second happens daily in this country without riots/looting.


Not directed at you Indy317 buthe video of the cops shooting less lethals into a crowd containing kids and infants plus the loose dog shows IMO something that never should have happened. When you become a LEO you sign up to take some ****. Thrown water bottles etc simply are not grounds for beanbagging/pepper balling in the direction of infants. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of too many thing that would justify that. If your skin is that thin and your finger that twitchy, you have no business with a gun and a badge.

Best,


Joe

 

[Indy317]

Who wants the guy driving the stolen car and shooting at the cops to be "given a pass"?

The family for one, and any friends, which could be many within the neighborhood. The mother of the 13 year old carjackers in Alabama wants the shooter charged, though police said it was self-defense. The father of the kid who is now arrested for the "knockout King" killing of a guy near Chicago said his kid only was meaning to "knock the guy out" which I took as wanting to give the kid a pass on the fact the man died as a result of the beating.

The first incident, absolutely. The second happens daily in this country without riots/looting.

The second happens w/o riots/looting yet, but my opinion is that it will come one day. People in Oakland, CA give a cop killer a parade. The mother of the pharmacy robber who was shot and killed in OK called her son a "hero." A relative of the robber gunned down in downtown Indy by a LTCH victim said the self-defense shooting was "murder."

Maybe you misread my first part, but this is the mentality I talked about when certain people, usually in lower income areas, want to give criminal actions a pass. They will riot because they don't have anything. Many have their entire life living from birth to death on welfare handouts of some sort. When bad things like this happen, some don't have the logic skills/education to deal with it in what many would view a proper manner. They have support parades for a rapist/cop killer today, riots tommorow. Just how I see things progressing in the future.

Not directed at you Indy317 buthe video of the cops shooting less lethals into a crowd containing kids and infants plus the loose dog shows IMO something that never should have happened. When you become a LEO you sign up to take some ****. Thrown water bottles etc simply are not grounds for beanbagging/pepper balling in the direction of infants. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of too many thing that would justify that. If your skin is that thin and your finger that twitchy, you have no business with a gun and a badge.

The way the police acted dosen't look well. The body language of the K-9 officer makes me believe that was a total mistake. Those bitten should get a nice paycheck. Should the officer be charged? I don't know. I read a lot about holding officers just as responsible as citizens. Do we charge citizens when their dogs bite people? Sometimes owners are cited, sometimes charged with crimes, and other times we do nothing letting insurance companies and lawyer fight it out on the civil side. It usually depends on the circumstances. I don't know what was or wasn't thrown. Empty plastic bottles, to me wouldn't be that big of deal. On the other hand, when you let a handful of people show that kind of respect and there is no response, it can easily lead to others thinking "Well, if those guys can throw stuff at the police, I can throw my glass bottle/a rock." Yes, that doesn't change things when more dangerous items are thrown, but these were just patrol officers, and likely they don't have the shields and helmets to take that kind of abuse. So there is a point in taking direct action to those throwing things at officers. I don't think police have to take anything which could lead to serious injury. If people don't want police to take action on people throwing anything at them, then don't knock the police when they get in their cars and leave.

It is a no win situation. The cops leave and there are cries of a police shooting cover-up (because the cops have to flee the area and therefore couldn't have done a proper investigation). If the people there start fires, break property, the cops get blasted for leaving the scene. Others will demand the cops, without any eye protection, take people throwing items they deem "safe" at them. I don't agree with that. I can't do my job with people throwing plastic bottles, blowing bubbles, etc.., even though their physical harm may be low, such actions are still battery. How many people here would continue on their shopping trip if a large group of kids continually tossed empty plastic bottles at them? Would you eventually call the police? Or would you leave the area? Is it battery if people throw water bottles at non-LEOs, but not criminal at all if thrown at LEOs?

 

[rambone]

Anyone throwing things at police should get charged. The resultant attack on the entire crowd is equally unacceptable.

 

[88GT]

Anyone throwing things at police should get charged. The resultant attack on the entire crowd is equally unacceptable.

Is there a point where the police would be A-OK to respond with force in your eyes?

 

[rambone]

Is there a point where the police would be A-OK to respond with force in your eyes?

Yeah, against an individual who exhibits force against someone else. Just because there are a few jerks in the crowd is not a carte blanche to attack anyone within range.

 

[level.eleven]

Fox just reported the guy was unarmed and shot in the back of the head while fleeing. There have been so many police shootings, the community has a scheduled weekly protest in front of the police department.

 

[TopDog]

I'm not changing my position, the police need to held accountable.

I would like to say this however. In light of the more of the story that has come to light, I want to know one freaking thing. Why in the hell are these people (and in this instance I use the word people with some restrain) bringing children to a protest. That is pure Bull Hockey. Reminds me of so many others that cowardly use children as shields. Im sure Im going to get the liberal bull that they couldnt find a baby sitter long enough to protest, forget it. That crap isn't going to wash.

Again, the police were wrong in having a K9 attack the woman with the stroller, intentional or not and should be held accountable. The obvious bad choices made by the protesters are not justification for what I saw in the video. But I'm really pissed that these people put their children in the line of fire, **** poor choice.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm not changing my position, the police need to held accountable.

I would like to say this however. In light of the more of the story that has come to light, I want to know one freaking thing. Why in the hell are these people (and in this instance I use the word people with some restrain) bringing children to a protest. That is pure Bull Hockey. Reminds me of so many others that cowardly use children as shields. Im sure Im going to get the liberal bull that they couldnt find a baby sitter long enough to protest, forget it. That crap isn't going to wash.

Again, the police were wrong in having a K9 attack the woman with the stroller, intentional or not and should be held accountable. The obvious bad choices made by the protesters are not justification for what I saw in the video. But I'm really pissed that these people put their children in the line of fire, **** poor choice.

And I'm wondering why people would take their young children to a midnight movie.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm not changing my position, the police need to held accountable.

I would like to say this however. In light of the more of the story that has come to light, I want to know one freaking thing. Why in the hell are these people (and in this instance I use the word people with some restrain) bringing children to a protest. That is pure Bull Hockey. Reminds me of so many others that cowardly use children as shields. Im sure Im going to get the liberal bull that they couldnt find a baby sitter long enough to protest, forget it. That crap isn't going to wash.

Again, the police were wrong in having a K9 attack the woman with the stroller, intentional or not and should be held accountable. The obvious bad choices made by the protesters are not justification for what I saw in the video. But I'm really pissed that these people put their children in the line of fire, **** poor choice.

I would agree with your concern regarding taking children in the event of a serious protest (likely to have riotous behavior involved) but have no problem with the children at the weekly 'remind the JBTs we are watching' meeting which should not involve anything more dangerous than going anywhere else in public. I don't believe they could reasonably be expected to have foreseen behavior indicative that some cops need banished to a penal colony, or a relative few deviating from the script so far as lobbing a few objects.

 

[Indy317]

Why in the hell are these people (and in this instance I use the word people with some restrain) bringing children to a protest. That is pure Bull Hockey. Reminds me of so many others that cowardly use children as shields. Im sure Im going to get the liberal bull that they couldnt find a baby sitter long enough to protest, forget it. That crap isn't going to wash.

This is what passes for parenting for many people today. It is about pleasing and being happy yourself. Kids come second, besides, isn't it the job of the "village" or government to raise the kids right? This is why we have kids left in hot cars. It is why children from infant age to four get dragged to midnight showings of violent movies. It is why family members blame innocent victims who used deadly force against their criminal relatives.

 

[88GT]

Yeah, against an individual who exhibits force against someone else. Just because there are a few jerks in the crowd is not a carte blanche to attack anyone within range.

Never said it was. You just have never come down on the side of LE, even when the use of force was directed at them personally, and even when that force had it been directed at a non-LEO would be grounds for several charges, some felonious.

Does that "someone else" include LE?

 

[level.eleven]

Video immediately following the shooting seems to validate that he was shot in the back. Lots of shaved heads and wrap around Oakleys.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwjUQYnWMM&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Pretty tight neighborhood to be squeezing off rounds at a man running, not presenting any immediate danger. That is rather disheartening. Also, based on where the body lay face down, the event could have been over as the runner had no where to go.

"He's Still Alive!" Video Emerges of Immediate Aftermath of Anaheim Police Killing of Manuel Diaz - Orange County News - Navel Gazing

 

[rambone]

Never said it was. You just have never come down on the side of LE, even when the use of force was directed at them personally, and even when that force had it been directed at a non-LEO would be grounds for several charges, some felonious.

Does that "someone else" include LE?

Whoever throws bottles and sets fires should be arrested. In case I wasn't clear.

 

[88GT]

Whoever throws bottles and sets fires should be arrested. In case I wasn't clear.

You were clear. But that doesn't answer my question. It's not even part of this discussion. This is about where you draw the line for LE to use force against force when the force is applied to LE specifically.