When "tap-rack-bang" isn't always a good idea - reloaders should read this!

[selinoid44]

I often run timer at cowboy matches and the most important thing I do is watch the shooter. We have spotters to watch the plates for hits and to watch for procedurals. Just at the last shoot I had a shooter throw a squibb from his 97, I immediatly stopped him from shooting the next round, we checked his barrel and it was blocked. Sometimes the shooters are so fast you really have to be on your toes to catch them, but thats what you have to do, stop the shooter. I'm glad I caught him! I've also seen it happen at tac matches, during the safety meeting I stress to the timers to watch the shooter and let the spotters worry about the hits and misses. An accident isn't on the menu.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I thought about reloading, and if I lived out in the country where I could step out my back door and shoot, then I might consider it. But from the research I did, it would take me years to recover my initial investment in equipment to make it economical. It looked to me (from my admittedly limited research) like I'd only be saving a penny or 2 per round even once I got past the break-even point. Does look like a fun hobby though, and if I only shot one caliber round it might make more sense to me as well.

To the OP, glad you weren't hurt, and a lesson was learned!

Not sure where you are getting your info from. I currently only reload 9mm. It's costing me roughly $6 per 50 rounds to reload. Unless you can catch it on sale, the cheapest brass cased ammo I have seen is around $12 per box. From the prices I have seen, 1k of 9mm will cost you roughly $250, unless you find it on sale. My press, tumbler, dies, etc. cost me $289. Not much more than buying 1k of factory ammo. Powder, primers, and bullets cost another $150. So by reloading for $6 per 50 rounds that equates to $120 to reload 1k rounds. That's roughly a savings of $130 per 1k by reloading. After reloading roughly 3k rounds you would almost paid for the initial cost of equipment and components. You do not have to spend a lot to get started into reloading. Plus my reloads are slighly more accurate than factory loaded ammo at half the cost.

 

[88E30M50]

I had a squib round about a year ago when shooting my Bersa 380. These were with a set of reloads that I had done. The reloads were working perfectly when it started to rain buckets. I put the rest of the ammo away, but it had gotten a bit wet. The next week, I went to finish off the box and about the 10th round into it, one just did not feel right. It also blew powder debris in my face. I pulled the slide and sure enough, there was a 95g RNHB about a third of the way down the barrel.

It serves to me as a lesson in trusting your feel of the gun. If at the range and a round feels different than the others, stop and check it out. Train your family to do the same thing. It takes just a moment to check it, but can save a lifetime of pain if the next round explodes the barrel.

I do the same thing when reloading. It's easy to crank out hundreds of rounds with a progressive press. That's both a blessing and a curse. The curse comes if you stop paying attention while working and don't notice something wrong. The best way to avoid that for me is to stop when something feels different than the pull before. If you've used a progressive press, you know what I mean. You pull 80 times and each pull is almost exactly like the one before it. Then you pull the 81st time and something wasn't right. When that happens to me, I stop, pull the pins and check each stage to see what may have caused it. I pull all but the last case out before cycling the handle again. Then I do the remaining cased individually until all are done. If everything checks out, I start feeding cases again. It also helps me to set a lamp to shine a light into the case so the case rim shadow meets the top of a proper powder charge. That lets me quickly do a visual check each pull.

Please don't let stories of individual round failures stop anyone from reloading. It happens with commercial ammo as well and reloading lets you crank out better ammo for less money. Reloading is one of my favorite parts of the shooting hobby.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I had a squib round about a year ago when shooting my Bersa 380. These were with a set of reloads that I had done. The reloads were working perfectly when it started to rain buckets. I put the rest of the ammo away, but it had gotten a bit wet. The next week, I went to finish off the box and about the 10th round into it, one just did not feel right. It also blew powder debris in my face. I pulled the slide and sure enough, there was a 95g RNHB about a third of the way down the barrel.

It serves to me as a lesson in trusting your feel of the gun. If at the range and a round feels different than the others, stop and check it out. Train your family to do the same thing. It takes just a moment to check it, but can save a lifetime of pain if the next round explodes the barrel.

I do the same thing when reloading. It's easy to crank out hundreds of rounds with a progressive press. That's both a blessing and a curse. The curse comes if you stop paying attention while working and don't notice something wrong. The best way to avoid that for me is to stop when something feels different than the pull before. If you've used a progressive press, you know what I mean. You pull 80 times and each pull is almost exactly like the one before it. Then you pull the 81st time and something wasn't right. When that happens to me, I stop, pull the pins and check each stage to see what may have caused it. I pull all but the last case out before cycling the handle again. Then I do the remaining cased individually until all are done. If everything checks out, I start feeding cases again. It also helps me to set a lamp to shine a light into the case so the case rim shadow meets the top of a proper powder charge. That lets me quickly do a visual check each pull.

Please don't let stories of individual round failures stop anyone from reloading. It happens with commercial ammo as well and reloading lets you crank out better ammo for less money. Reloading is one of my favorite parts of the shooting hobby.

One reason I started with a single stage press, not saying mistakes can still not happen. It takes longer but you can concentrate on one stage at a time. I have had quite a few factory rounds that where eather under or over charged. Shoot enough and you can tell the difference.

 

[zenbruno]

Please don't let stories of individual round failures stop anyone from reloading. It happens with commercial ammo as well and reloading lets you crank out better ammo for less money. Reloading is one of my favorite parts of the shooting hobby.

Exactly.


Something I haven't heard mentioned is the benefit of carrying a length of dowel rod (or similar) for squib checking.

With the gun pointed safely downrange, simply run the dowel through the barrel from the muzzle. If there's any obstruction, you'll find it. Definitely better than looking into the barrel of your gun. I actually use a length of brazing rod, always kept in my range bag, for this purpose. Brazing rod is of narrow enough diameter to fit through my .22 bores, plus it's softer than barrel steel (however, a wood dowel would probably be safest for the bore).

OP, glad that you and the gun are OK… and it's good that others can learn from this, too.

 

[SSGSAD]

This is why I'm nervous to get into reloading. It would always be in the back of my mind.

As it SHOULD be !!!!! I use a "loading block" and use a light to check the powder in EACH and EVERY case..... (single stage loader) ....

 

[EPD1102]

Glad nobody got hurt! This is the reason I don't reload, I would always wonder if I did it right.

It's not just reloaders. We have had duty ammo from major manufacturers with squib loads also. Several years ago, we intentionally loaded up a couple hundred squib loads and let everyone on the P.D. intentionally experience one.

 

[jedi]

Glad nobody got hurt! This is the reason I don't reload, I would always wonder if I did it right.

This is why I'm nervous to get into reloading. It would always be in the back of my mind.

Note squid loads can happen with factory ammo as well. See below.
Also the OP was reloading "light" loads as well so he has an increase changce of his ammo not working. If he had been reloading at the std (ie. recommended power charge) his chances of an error are much less (ie. just like factory ammo).

RCBS sells a lock-out die that is a "work of wonder" to ensure you don't over-powder or under-powder when you are reloading.
Lock-Out Die

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs5GWG_Prc"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=egs5GWG_Prc[/ame]

It's not just reloaders. We have had duty ammo from major manufacturers with squib loads also. Several years ago, we intentionally loaded up a couple hundred squib loads and let everyone on the P.D. intentionally experience one.

 

[rhino]

Tap= seat the mag
Rack= pull the slide
Roll= tilt the gun so the ejection port faces towards the ground so an fte or FTf falls to the ground.

This is was what they drilled into him at frontsite

Allow me to clarify. I am familiar with immediate action drills. My question was, why would adding the "roll" during the rack make a difference in a negligent discharge? Your message indicated that a police officer shot someone he didn't intend to shoot after a tap/rack/bang. Why would adding the rotation of the gun so that gravity can help during the racking phase have prevented this?

 

[youngda9]

This is proof positive that God is a 1911 fan

Same thing happened to me with a Kahr a couple years ago...now what

 

[Jeremiah]

Allow me to clarify. I am familiar with immediate action drills. My question was, why would adding the "roll" during the rack make a difference in a negligent discharge? Your message indicated that a police officer shot someone he didn't intend to shoot after a tap/rack/bang. Why would adding the rotation of the gun so that gravity can help during the racking phase have prevented this?

becuse Frontsite said so. I figured the logic agains tap-rack-bang was that in the le world, instead of a competiton world, you have to thing different. ( same goes when carrying a gun) the logic behind the roll of the wrist was supposed to help with something, I haven't been to frontsite so I don't know. I guess they were trying to get people to focus on getting sight alingment and then determine what had changed. Instead of thinking about shooting right away.

 

[rhino]

becuse Frontsite said so. I figured the logic agains tap-rack-bang was that in the le world, instead of a competiton world, you have to thing different. ( same goes when carrying a gun) the logic behind the roll of the wrist was supposed to help with something, I haven't been to frontsite so I don't know. I guess they were trying to get people to focus on getting sight alingment and then determine what had changed. Instead of thinking about shooting right away.

The "roll" is fairly common now, especially for the immediate action drill for rifles.

Maybe the difference is that they're now teaching to not always shoot after the immediate action. Some trainers/schools now use a phrase such as "tap, rack & roll, resume" or "tap, rack & roll, assess" because shooting isn't always mandated after clearing a malfunction.

ACT honors one of our favorite South Africans by adopting his phrase, "WHACK! RACK! BACK!" (don't forget to roll the "r" on rack). Saying "back" instead of "bang" is an attempt to suggest that your attention goes back to your threat/target, whether you shoot or not, and that shooting isn't the only action possible at that point.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Preventive medicine

I always carry a brass hammer and an aluminum gutter-spike when checking out my reloads at the range. Hmmm.

This weekend I took my wife's Colt 1911 9mm Defender to a private range to get some time with it. I was shooting some of my own reloads, known to be a light load. I had tailored that load to be strong enough to cycle my G19 reliably, but to also remain as economical as possible.

I had a few stove pipes, and wasn't too dissapointed, again knowing I was running a light load. The gun has run without issue with factory ammo, and really lilkes the carry load (Hornady Critical Defense) that my wife carries.

4 or 5 mags in I had a fail to cycle after the first round. I remember a "pop" so in my head I had not yet considered it a fail to actually fire a round. The fact I didn't hit the target was also not sounding an alarm, since I was shooting at a 75yd 12" gong to see how the gun peformed a longer range (had been hitting it the mag before every 3rd shot or so). The action was just out of battery, but there was no visible stove pipe or other problem indicating the cause of the problem. Thinking I might have had a light load that didn't quite cycle the action, I tapped the mag to make sure it was seated, racked the slide and ejected an empty casing (Should have been my first clue something was up). The next round in the mag picked up and did not fully chamber, leaving the action still slightly out of battery, so the "bang" part was not possible. I repeated the tap-rack-bang and ejected the live round. Next round picks up from the mag and and does the same thing.

So, I was a bit puzzled by that point, and decide after being un successful, I needed to investigate in more detail. This time I dropped the mag (keeping the gun pointed down range), then ejected the round that did not feed. It fell out through the mag well as expected. I locked the slide back, and looked in the chamber to confirm it was clear. There I could see very clearly the back end of a 115gr Montana gold bullet!!!

Apparently I had missed charging, or significantly under charged that round in my progressive for whatever reason. So the primer pop was enough to make me think I had an actual fire (although I don't recall anything odd on the recoil that would have gone with that, which would have been clue #2).


Had the bullet been able to go a bit further down the barrel, there is a very good chance I could have blown up my wife's carry gun, and hurt myself. I count myself lucky (think the Man upstairs was looking out for me) that the next 2 rounds got hung up when it hit the other bullet.


So, reloaders (especially relatively new ones like me), when you have a malfunction with your reloaded rounds, make sure you are confident the barrel is not obstructed by a squibb!!! I know I learned a lesson and will try to be more observant to the sounds and feels. Looking back on it, I'm sure that there was a difference in sound and recoil with the squibb (not sure if the sound would have been noticed with my earpro on), but at the time it didn't register, and the fact that I'd had a few other malfunctions desenstized me a bit.


This also reaffirmed to myself the reason my wife and I personally use factory ammo for our carry ammo. Not that reloads cannot be trusted or that factory ammo is always perfect, but I know that I've made just enough mistakes like this that I don't yet have full confidence in my loads. Out of the 5 or 6 thousand rounds I've loaded for myself, I probably know of 10 or so that I have made a mistake on I didn't catch during final inspection. So, that puts me at 99.8% "Right first time," but glad that .2% hasn't hurt me or another.