When to actually use your gun?

[mjblazor]

Are you willing to take a whipping before you pull your gun? If a larger person than yourself becomes aggressive toward you do you stand and fight, retreat, both, or simply pull your gun? Perhaps all of the above. Say you are walking to car and someone comes upon you and announces a robbery and they are not showing a gun. Is that a life threatening (or a stand your ground) situation? What if they show physical force (hit, punch, shove, etc...)? Is any show of physical force to be considered life threatening? What if someone attempts to rob you as you get to your car and you shoot and kill them. There is someone sitting in car near enough to see and hear the whole thing and acts as witness. They testify to the robbery but no threat of life was made obvious. Of course, if it is an armed robbery they have a gun (likely pointed in your direction) and that changes things. But, You are already at a big disadvantage. You may or may not have an opportunity to surprise him with your own weapon. If you do have the opportunity than you have to be prepared to a quick kill since a wound (or shot that stops physical aggression) would likely mean he can still shoot back and you are in a gunfight. I'm sure one of Massad Ayoub's books discusses this but I have not read yet. In a home invasion of sort it is a pretty easy decision. But, outside the home and with a ccw it's not so clear. I'm just curious in a real life situation what is your deciding factors?

 

[Bunnykid68]

I will not take a whipping, I will retreat if I can, if not, all bets are off.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I'm not going to take a beating if I can prevent it. I can assess whether to press the trigger while looking across the sights. Anything less risks injury or incapacitation which might prevent getting the gun out later. Any serious aggression toward me or mine gets to see the business end. Don't hesitate; they won't.

 

[mjblazor]

So, the good old fashion fist fight is a thing of the past?

 

[throttletony]

wow, lots of questions...
I think you mentioned most of the factors.
In the moment, it would be hard to look around to see if there was another witness who could back you up. In general, (y'all correct me if I'm wrong here) when it becomes a threatening situation, and especially after they've already attacked, you are in the right to draw your weapon.
Most training places encourage citizen CCW folks to practice yelling "no" or "stop" or "I have a gun and I'll shoot" (or all of these things) as you draw a gun, then I think the attacker's reaction would be very telling. If they run, obviously don't shoot, if they charge/attack more, then shoot.
Either way, once it is announced that you have a gun, you'd better be prepared to use it if needed. Otherwise, they may use it on you.

that's my $.02 - but there are a LOT of factors that can go into a situation like this

 

[throttletony]

So, the good old fashion fist fight is a thing of the past?

not necessarily -- but you only control 50% of that equation (max. of 50%, perhaps less if it's on their turf, you're unprepared, there's 2 v 1, etc.)
What if the OTHER guy starts a fist fight and then later pulls a gun?

 

[Bluejeeper]

You are more than welcome to have a "good old fashioned fist fight" with a gangbanger with possible hidden weapons if you so desire. I'd rather not take that chance.

 

[singlesix]

So, the good old fashion fist fight is a thing of the past?

25 yo male about 185 lbs against a 50 yo female about 90 lbs .. since a good old fashion fist fight?

 

[throttletony]

one other thought -- who is gonna possibly know when a beating starts if it will ONLY be a beating ("whippin" in OP), as opposed to a beating/kidnapping/rape/murder/etc...

I'd try to retreat if possible, I'd rather be alive and at home than in a jail cell even if it were clearly justified

 

[mjblazor]

25 yo male about 185 lbs against a 50 yo female about 90 lbs .. since a good old fashion fist fight?

This is not a questionable situation nor one that requires much thought. Not all situations are this clear cut.

 

[singlesix]

This is not a questionable situation nor one that requires much thought. Not all situations are this clear cut.

So define a good old fashion fist fight? You going to check each person's training to ensure it's an even match?

 

[mjblazor]

Funny how times have changed. Retreat or blast away.

 

[MCgrease08]

Funny how times have changed. Retreat or blast away.

There's a big difference between a fist fight with two willing combatants and an assault or attack where one party is being targeted and is not a willing participant.

I don't see how using a firearm as a defensive tool against a premeditated attack would be considered a sign of changing times. The scenario has been playing out for 200 years or more.

 

[throttletony]

Funny how times have changed. Retreat or blast away.

consider your audience here too though, MJBlazer

I'm sure you would get very different responses if you polled college kids at IU or Purdue.
Food for thought.

Edit to add: *MOST* college "students" (not kids) would probably have differing opinions

 

[Bunnykid68]

So, the good old fashion fist fight is a thing of the past?

Im old and tired, if you really wish to assault me I will shoot you to stop it from happening, you know, Im old and tired and dont have time for this ****

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

consider your audience here too though, MJBlazer

I'm sure you would get very different responses if you polled college kids at IU or Purdue.
Food for thought.

Edit to add: *MOST* college "students" (not kids) would probably have differing opinions

Hey, Im a polysci student at IU, and if a guy was on top of me trying to kick my ass, I wouldnt shoot, but not because I lack the will to, but I would rather just stick the guy in the gut with a auto-folder knife and keep stabbing till he's down. If a guys on top of you and you try to draw a gun, the guy can grab your gun hand and a good hammerfist or hook to the temple and its lights out, or he might stick you.

 

[1861navy]

There's a big difference between a fist fight with two willing combatants and an assault or attack where one party is being targeted and is not a willing participant.

I don't see how using a firearm as a defensive tool against a premeditated attack would be considered a sign of changing times. The scenario has been playing out for 200 years or more.

This. Exactly this. In the situation described, yes I would shoot someone announcing a robbery on me. I definitely don't want my **** to get taken, or be robbed, or physically assaulted. And IMO yes it is a possible life or death situation, if someone is robbing you, chances are they have some kind of weapon even if they are hiding it. It's only fair to return the favor and defend yourself.

 

[mjblazor]

Bunny, I agree with you. I guess I'm asking to consider the legal aspects. I'm old & tired too and would be easy to use that as my reason for shooting someone. But, I'd hate to spend the rest of my life in jail because I'm old and tired. I know someone will respond "better in jail than in the ground". The goal is to stop the threat, and avoid death and jail. The smart ccw holder will do that. If I'm attacked and shoot the SOB for attacking me I may feel it's justified by my law bit it still has to be legally justified and not by just my law. Don't get me wrong...I love my guns and will use them if need to. But really in an instant I could lose my guns and freedom do to an error in judgement, as it relates to the law. I hope I explained this correctly.

 

[threedhuntr]

Im old and tired, if you really wish to assault me I will shoot you to stop it from happening, you know, Im old and tired and dont have time for this ****

* **Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you. -- JONH STEINBECK

 

[cedartop]

.
Most training places encourage citizen CCW folks to practice yelling "no" or "stop" or "I have a gun and I'll shoot" (or all of these things) as you draw a gun, then I think the attacker's reaction would be very telling..

Not saying that would be wrong in every situation, but in the 40+ classes I have taken, none have taught that. Yes I am aware of a some that do.