When to draw your weapon

[Polished515]

Good evening guys. I was recently asked several questions from a friend of mine and I wasn't 100% sure how to respond to one of them.
Let me start off by saying that I am what I consider to be, very educated on firearms and especially the ones I carry on my person. I've been through training and am confident in my abilities across the board. However, I have never been in a situation where I have had to decide to draw my weapon or not.
My friend was telling me about a friend of hers who had recently seen something very disturbing. She said that her friend was leaving a restaurant and seen two adults beating a child. The adults were standing outside of the vehicle while the child was laying on the floor of the vehicle attempting to get away from the beating. Apparently she watched this happen for about a minute before the adults got into their vehicle and drove off. Her friend called the cops and attempted to follow the vehicle.

Now my friend asks me "If you seen this happening, would you draw your firearm on them?" My first thought is Of Course! Why wouldn't any civilized human being try to save a child from something like that? But then I realized, what if me drawing my weapon made it worse? Would it be better to block the car in and attempt to face them without a weapon?

I've mentally put myself through a lot of scenarios and have gone over the pros and cons of each. But this was something I hadn't really thought much of, I guess I just don't even like thinking about a child being hurt that way. But now It won't leave my mind and I feel like maybe getting some different opinions on INGO would help me to understand the best options. I've always received good feedback from everyone on here. So what do you think? What would you do?

I appreciate you taking the time to read this.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

This situation (as described) would in my opinion be the time to call Law Enforcement and be as great a witness as I could be for the child.

Reason I feel this way? I had my hide tanned a fair share of times while growing up & would not want to be drawn on while correcting my children in public / privacy of our vehicle. "Beating" to one person could be "spanking" to another... CPS & Local LEOs legally have the authority to make those calls. We can take this to extremes, however I'm choosing "middle of the road" situation...

 

[Polished515]

As far as the "spanking" or "punishing" of an out of line child goes, I agree.

I suppose what I am looking for is different opinions on the risks vs the legality of the situation.

According to this woman, the child was being screamed and cursed at and the two adults were throwing punches. Of course we all know how over dramatic some people can be.

I just have a hard time thinking I could walk away from something like that IF it were to ever happen.

 

[wakproductions]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've been told that in Indiana you can use your firearm to protect another person against "serious bodily injury". Here's a website article I found talking about this: Criminal Defense Attorney Indianapolis | Banks & Brower, LLC

I guess the legal answer would depend on what sort of danger the child was in. As another user pointed out, depending on the context what some people may see as a "beating" may be a "spanking" to others.

IMO, your firearm would probably not help the situation because its a form of escalation. What if the abusive parent is also an armed citizen and sees you as an imminent threat? And if you pull out your firearm and the parent stops hitting the child, what next?

You could probably diffuse the situation by saying something to the abuser. Only draw the firearm as a last resort if the parent become violent. The most effective tool might be your cell phone - record some video to document the abusive situation and report it to law enforcement. They could investigate the situation more thoroughly. Drawing your firearm might stop the situation or escalate it - but it would only temporarily interrupt what's going on. A true situation of abuse is going to continue well after they've left the scene.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I dont think drawing based on the description is warranted. Remember, you dont draw unless you are ready to use it. drawing to stop the parents by intimidation I dont think is the way to go.

Now maybe blocking in their vehicle while calling 911 is a better idea. Be a good witness and try to get the parents distracted by engaging them in conversation to get them to stop beating the child might be a better idea at least until the authorities arrive.

And as someone said, there is a difference between a beating and a quick spanking. If you see them "spanking" said child and you have time to stop, observe, look around, then maneuver your vehicle into position before they stop, its a bit more than a quick spanking and worthy of LEO intervention IMHO.

Now afterward if mom or dad decides YOU are the next contestant on "the beating is right" because you intervened, then thats when the rubber meets the road. But bear in mind by inserting yourself actively into the situation, use of your weapon isnt necessarily a cut and dried matter of self defense. Better make sure you have somebody like Guy Relford on retainer.

 

[cbhausen]

I would record video if I could while telling them to stop. If they don't stop or stop then approach me in a threatening manner I would be on the verge of drawing. If their actions are seriously endangering me or the child it's time to pull steel. Remember: ability, opportunity and jeopardy. All three must be present to justifiably use deadly force. Pulling your weapon with intent to deter is not advisable in my opinion. Only pull if there is a real reason to use it, then only use it when no other options exist. And no matter how heartless it sounds, I'd be less likely to pull for a stranger than a friend or family, I think. Maybe I'll get lambasted for writing that but that's my mindset thinking it through.

 

[jd4320t]

If I saw someone beating a child, beating not spanking or something normally accepted, I would say something and call the police. Draw attention and get a crowd on your side if needed. Drawing a gun in that situation could easily make it worse for all parties involved.

 

[searpinski]

.....

 

[PRasko]

Draw when YOUR life, or the life of a loved one is in danger.

If you want to be a hero, be prepared to spend a lot of money on a lawyer or a funeral.

 

[ModernGunner]

Well, the scenario as described is scant on details (were the two adults large men, or a man & wife couple and parents of the child, etc.?) As noted, what constitutes 'beating'? Being slapped or spanked, or being pummeled with blows that are potentially lethal? And so forth.

As described, I would guess I would've addressed the situation, and ask if I could be of assistance. I'm 'pressing' enough in personality and demeanor that I'd want to satisfy myself the child hasn't been kidnapped and the child isn't in direct danger from the adults. Call the squads, wait for the 'cavalry'. At the minimum, write down the vehicle plate # and description, even IF I didn't believe the situation warranted calling the squads.

In this instance, had I (or someone else) already called 9/11, even if it were two 'burly men' who then choose to approach me and "engage in adverse rhetoric", unlikely I'd draw a firearm at that point. For one thing, engaging them verbally gets their focus distracted from the child, provides them a 'cooling off' period to realize their actions weren't appropriate and buys time for the LEO's to arrive and handle it.

Further 'escalation' on their part would be considered a "Bozo no-no" and I tend to reject such action. That would be a further judgment call solely on my part as I chose to interject myself into the situation.

IS there a conceivable scenario that COULD warrant drawing a weapon and holding the adults at gunpoint? Absolutely. But absent more specifics in this particular instance, I'd likely agree that 'observe & report' was probably the most viable option. If it looked to be 'abusive', then at least good information can be provided to LEO's in order to 'get the file started' and 'get them in the system'. Then the LEO's can follow up as they deem appropriate.

 

[nakinate]

When necessary...or at the range.

 

[cosermann]

See - Indiana code 35-41-3-2. - Indiana Code 35-41-3

Also - Commentary by Evan Marshall

Also - https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...rez-should-you-act-get-involved-get-away.html

Good luck.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

I think if I made the call this was truly a beating and I was going to get involved, drawing my firearm would be the last resort - as others have said. I'm a decent size guy and can take care of myself. My first inclination would be to get them off the kid first. If they then decide to come after me - I've already made the decision to get them off the kid and on me if necessary - then I will defend myself to the level necessary to preserve my own life.

In any event, if there was a "beating" going on, I couldn't walk away - kid or no.

 

[KittySlayer]

Friend of a Friend of a Friend

My friend was telling me about a friend of hers who had recently seen something very disturbing. She said that her friend was leaving a restaurant and seen two adults beating a child. The adults were standing outside of the vehicle while the child was laying on the floor of the vehicle attempting to get away from the beating. Apparently she watched this happen for about a minute before the adults got into their vehicle and drove off. Her friend called the cops and attempted to follow the vehicle.

I am leaning towards a spanking observed by a liberal. How does it take two adults longer than a minute to beat a child into submission? If it was a true beating why didn't the friend try to stop the beating that lasted more than a minute? Yell at them to stop. Get in her car and begin honking her horn. Go back inside the restaurant and get someone who was not a coward to save the child. Calling the police takes forever.

I'm not pulling my gun until the threat escalates. Yell from a distance while observing and deciding how much harm is being done.

Did your friend ask her friend why she did not pull her own gun?

 

[ViperJock]

First of all, if you point that firearm it's on. Don't count on not getting shot by the people you are muzzling and/or another person who sees you draw on them. So that has to be considered aside from legality. IANAL so I'm not going to go into the legal issues.

Secondly, while I have never beat one of my children in public (or at home) I have not infrequently carried one kicking and screaming bloody murder (typically between 1-3years old) from various public places they were not keen to leave.

Now add the two together. I'm tired, frazzled, I'm not thinking clearly, and I can't hear anything except my kid screaming. Next thing I know a stranger is drawing on me and my child. As far as I'm concerned you are threatening our lives. What happens next? Well, as the "good guy" you probably are reluctant to shoot me--especially with a child in my arms. I, on the other hand, find myself in a fight for my life. You see where I'm going with this? Next thing that happens is one or all of us get shot and/or killed.

So many things to consider. I'm not saying the OP sounds like a cowboy, but there are people on here that consider themselves "sheepdogs" itching to be a hero that I hope never to be near on the street.

If you aren't 100% sure a life us in danger you better think very hard about clearing that leather.

 

[TheEngineer]

When to draw your weapon...

...when my life or the lives of those around me are threatened.





















...or at the range.

























...or art class.

 

[ViperJock]

...when my life or the lives of those around me are threatened.





...or at the range.



...or art class.

or at Rural King.

 

[TheEngineer]

or at Rural King.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I dont think drawing based on the description is warranted. Remember, you dont draw unless you are ready to use it. drawing to stop the parents by intimidation I dont think is the way to go.

This ^^^^

Planting the thought in your head that it's ok to draw under any circumstances other than having to fire is a slippery slope IMO.

 

[Somemedic]

Wanna be a cop? Take the test and get into the academy.

Barring them from leaving sounds like "criminal confinement" so that probably isn't a good option. Pulling a gun? What if you had to shoot? Isn't there a child in the background? Hit the kid even though your intentions were noble and you'll be painted into the new Zimmerman.

Speaking of Zimmerman God help you if the 2 people doing the beating are a different color.

Cell phone camera is your friend. Record the activity and a plate. If you have a second person with you they better be on the phone to the cops who should arrive just minutes after the perps leave.

Fwiw when they see you filming they will probably go ape shift for doing so. F'em