When to teach tap, rack, bang?

[Barry in IN]

With the 4-H kids, I’ll usually go over it when they have the first malfunction.
Any earlier and I’m afraid it lacks impact. “Why are we doing this?”

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

Additionally, clearing malfunctions while keeping your eyes on the target is another matter entirely.

This is an advanced skill module that if tried by less than average skill set on the street will more than likely result on the victim seeing himself kilt.

I struggled with this a lot at first. Throw that on top of moving while engaging and you have a real challenge.


"Take heed and bear witness to the truths that lie herein."

 

[Amishman44]

Training is always progressive and my thoughts tend towards when the individual has mastered gun handling safety, basic shooting concepts, and a degree of competency with shooting the pistol.
My question is, how do you define basic shooting training, intermediate shooting training, and advanced shooting training?
Once you have clearly defined those, the 'tap, rack, bang' concept will then fall into it's proper place in the training process.
One other concept, some fail to incorporate, is teaching individual skills separately, and then incorporating them together in to one active process.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Training is always progressive and my thoughts tend towards when the individual has mastered gun handling safety, basic shooting concepts, and a degree of competency with shooting the pistol.
My question is, how do you define basic shooting training, intermediate shooting training, and advanced shooting training?
Once you have clearly defined those, the 'tap, rack, bang' concept will then fall into it's proper place in the training process.
One other concept, some fail to incorporate, is teaching individual skills separately, and then incorporating them together in to one active process.

an experienced trainer can tell the skill set in about 30 seconds. Some even before a shot is fired.

 

[jlw]

My course lineup has had basic malfunction clearance in my second pistol class; however, I have a stand alone class titled Critical Pistol Skills in which the entire class is conducting reloads and clearing malfunctions freestyle, strong hand only and then support hand only. That class has prerequisites, and the real reason for taking the class is to achieve a complete mastery level of operation of the pistol. The chances of actually accomplishing a support hand double feed clearance under fire is extremely low.

 

[Brad69]

Uh,

1. Safety / Weapons handling / How a weapon works

2. Basic Marksmanship Instruction

3. How to load the weapon safely

4. How to fire the weapon

5. How to reduce stoppage

6. How to clear the weapon safely

7. How to maintain weapon and disassembly and reassembly

8. Qualification

9. Re Qualification Intervals based on need 90 day, 180, annually?

IMO
Reduction of a stoppage both immediate and remedial has to be integrated into basic instruction in order to be effective?

 

[Trapper Jim]

Uh,

1. Safety / Weapons handling / How a weapon works

2. Basic Marksmanship Instruction

3. How to load the weapon safely

4. How to fire the weapon

5. How to reduce stoppage

6. How to clear the weapon safely

7. How to maintain weapon and disassembly and reassembly

8. Qualification

9. Re Qualification Intervals based on need 90 day, 180, annually?

IMO
Reduction of a stoppage both immediate and remedial has to be integrated into basic instruction in order to be effective?

Sorry but if you don't bring your steps along as a progressed ability all you end up with is a person who has attended the instuction but learned very little in actually putting them into muscle/intrinsic memory. I see them everday. I label it cookie cutter training with no follow up or promise of actually seeing your student learn these things and prove with practice that they got it down. In other words, the graduate of pulp study that ends up shooting a hole in his left hand, sweeps himself, trigger bunkering, or has an ND somewhere. 4 hours and a cert just won't do it in most cases. IMHO

 

[Brad69]

TJ

That instruction template takes 14 days straight no weekends and such 12 hours a day!

For example zeroing takes two days one for grouping and one for actual zero

BTW
If they don’t quail you restart em back at the beginning been working pretty good since about 1945!

 

[Trapper Jim]

TJ

That instruction template takes 14 days straight no weekends and such 12 hours a day!

For example zeroing takes two days one for grouping and one for actual zero

BTW
If they don’t quail you restart em back at the beginning been working pretty good since about 1945!

I stand corrected on this structure. I was referring to the normal commercial applications. Thank you for pointing that out and keep up the good work. Do they ever get followed up on let’s say a year later to test their retention of knowledge?

 

[1775usmarine]

I thought we were taught how to tap rack bang in 5th grade when they separated the boys and girls into 2 different classes.

 

[Vigilant]

I stand corrected on this structure. I was referring to the normal commercial applications. Thank you for pointing that out and keep up the good work. Do they ever get followed up on let’s say a year later to test their retention of knowledge?

Yes, they qualify at least yearly, some Semi annually, and some quarterly.

 

[Coach]

Several years ago I started teaching tap, rack, bang as the first element in class of an intermediate level. I have been doing this instructing thing for a little while and I never thought I would get accustomed to having guns pointed at me. It has happened far more times than it should. Being the observant soul that is fairly good with the obvious, I found a pattern. The pattern was malfunctions.

In introductory classes the instructions are always lay the gun down and wait for help if I or someone else is not right there. That works pretty well. But in the next level class things are fine usually until a malfunction. Once a malfunction occurs then a person who has been safe for a couple of hours suddenly becomes unsafe. Usually turning around and asking for help.

So I began the practice of explaining the tap,rack, bang. Demonstrating the tap, rack, bang. And then having each student successfully demonstrate the tap, rack, bang. Sometimes they have to do it more than once to do it successfully. But at that point they have been told how and why to do it. They have been shown how to do it and they have successfully done it in full view of the class. This has drastically reduced the turn around and ask for help stupidity.

The other advantage is that if I am not standing directly behind them when a malfunction occurs. The tap, rack, bang gives me time to be there in case they need further assistance. I have had a couple of very experienced instructors say to me that it is a skill that should be taught later in the progression. I think perhaps as a tactic in a fight that is correct. But I think as a method of not getting the line swept and the gun pointed at the instructor that it can be taught with positive effect much sooner. What is more important that safety?

I don't know if that is the correct time and place, but I have seen a drastic reduction in safety breeches since I start doing it this way.

 

[Trapper Jim]

So how many of us learning to drive can comprehend all things. For instance, try explaining to a 16 year old getting his license about over correcting. Yeah he reads it, he can answer it on a test, he can even repeat it back. But.... until he had the Experience of many road miles and panic, his instincts will always cause him to over correct when he shoulders the wheel or Bambi jumps out in front of him.

This is the challenge to ability driven learning modules. Proper and consistent gun handling (tested) first. The student individually can prove when it’s time for advanced modules. Just me.

 

[Jackson]

I'm not an instructor but I always find it interesting to see what information an instructor prioritizes and how they pick what to cover when.

I see dealing with malfunctions as part of basic gun handling. Load the gun, apply marksmanship fundamentals, reload the gun, fix the gun if it needs fixed. All basic parts of operating the gun. So I think it best to teach it earlier than later.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I'm not an instructor but I always find it interesting to see what information an instructor prioritizes and how they pick what to cover when.

I see dealing with malfunctions as part of basic gun handling. Load the gun, apply marksmanship fundamentals, reload the gun, fix the gun if it needs fixed. All basic parts of operating the gun. So I think it best to teach it earlier than later.

as long as the student, because of its early introduction, does not too easily accept a malfunctioning gun. I know plenty that put up with sub standard equipment forever. Not good to bring crap to a gun fight.

 

[ECS686]

I'm not an instructor but I always find it interesting to see what information an instructor prioritizes and how they pick what to cover when.

I see dealing with malfunctions as part of basic gun handling. Load the gun, apply marksmanship fundamentals, reload the gun, fix the gun if it needs fixed. All basic parts of operating the gun. So I think it best to teach it earlier than later.

As far as priorities it can depend on your audience.
I'm an Agency Instructor and my observation is you have to gauge your audience. Like are they the type (civilian or advance LE that want to be there or simply forced to show up for a qualification (typical Agency employee or minimal training type with a LTCH)

When I have my agency instructor hat on I often have to dumb it down due to Severe institutional inbreeding that 1. Agency Attorneys just cant get away from. and 2. Those people that we become purely safety monitors for.


Now when I was doing advance classes at work and when I attended other "outside" classes with LE and civilians firearm enthusiasts. Everyone wanted to be there and generally took to new methods techniques etc and practiced with no complaints

My point is there's always those individuals that will be a challenge so you might have to alter your approach they are just not into guns or do it like some of us can.

 

[Jackson]

As far as priorities it can depend on your audience.
I'm an Agency Instructor and my observation is you have to gauge your audience. Like are they the type (civilian or advance LE that want to be there or simply forced to show up for a qualification (typical Agency employee or minimal training type with a LTCH)

When I have my agency instructor hat on I often have to dumb it down due to Severe institutional inbreeding that 1. Agency Attorneys just cant get away from. and 2. Those people that we become purely safety monitors for.


Now when I was doing advance classes at work and when I attended other "outside" classes with LE and civilians firearm enthusiasts. Everyone wanted to be there and generally took to new methods techniques etc and practiced with no complaints

My point is there's always those individuals that will be a challenge so you might have to alter your approach they are just not into guns or do it like some of us can.

Should it be your goal to find a way to get through to those who are least interested because they need it the most? Their fellow officers may need to rely on their skills. Maybe this isnt possible.

 

[ECS686]

Should it be your goal to find a way to get through to those who are least interested because they need it the most? Their fellow officers may need to rely on their skills. Maybe this isnt possible.

When I'm in the private sector or some of my agencies advanced classes realm I do and have no problem as they want to be there.

With the mundane agency stuff like I said you gauge the audience. The good thing on the agency side you k is who the Kia vilified are year after year. You help the new ones u til they become "those staff" and you simply shift to safety no it or as they are doing nothing but minimal standards.

Little backstory on the agency side. We have those staff that take all the attempts allowed to qualify year after year. Yet they refuse to practice then act like it's my emergency. It's not me it's then LOL. Now the newer staff that listen and want to improve I will stay through my lunch if they want to practice.

All the outside classes never had that issue as the attendees want to be there and they practice.

 

[dudley0]

I'm not an instructor but I always find it interesting to see what information an instructor prioritizes and how they pick what to cover when.

I see dealing with malfunctions as part of basic gun handling. Load the gun, apply marksmanship fundamentals, reload the gun, fix the gun if it needs fixed. All basic parts of operating the gun. So I think it best to teach it earlier than later.

I concur whole heartedly. What happens when the student practices solo? Gun malfunctions and they have no clue what to do.

BTW, I could see you as an instructor.

 

[indiucky]

According to scripture the night of your wedding......