Where are the firearms

[JBI812]

Folks are telling me there's a shortage of firearms....... Smith Wesson has a product catalog with offerings a mile long but on one has any to sell and no one can get them either. Distributors don't have any either. I went into a store last week and they had 3 rifles and about five handguns. The guys said they've had sold out and can't get any more. Same goes for Ruger, Browning and SIG. You go to the stores and it's "What U See is all there is". According to finance reports the firearm manufactures aren't making any money. So, who's buying all the guns and why is there a shortage? What's going on?

 

[Fordtough25]

My LGS is still nicely stocked and selling a bunch daily! He has said that its getting hard to get some guns but he has a nice variety in stock still.

 

[Jake46184]

Gun shops across the country are begging manufacturers and distributors for inventory. It appears that many of the manufacturers (Sig is probably the best example right now) are hopelessly under-capitalized and cannot afford to make the guns to meet the demand. A gun shop should be able to go directly to a manufacturer, or to a distributor like RSR, and buy any gun on a manufacturer's current product list and receive it in less than a week. It's not possible. Picking on Sig again, it can take 6+ months (if you can get it at all.) With the amazing demand that may be coming in the next 12 months, manufacturers need to figure out how to put guns, lots of them, in the pipeline. This is a historic opportunity for them and many are losing countless $millions because they don't have the capital to do business.

 

[JBI812]

I was told by a fellow that SIG requires an annual 15,000.00 cash in advance to become a distributor and they ship and bill against the open order when product is available. I've also heard that Bretta increased their distributor fee to 50 grand. Maybe thats why folks aren't buying their products.

 

[greyhound47]

Around Fort Wayne it has been interesting. The smaller shops, especially the ones with little to no credit look picked over and have for months. Long time, well financed, good credit stores still have good selections BUT NO ONE seems to be able to ORDER a gun anymore. If they have it, they have it but don't even bother asking them to order. In the past two months my boss and I have bought 5 pistols between the two of us and getting them was time consuming and really seperated the men from the boys in gun shops. If this goes on I look to see a couple of small shops ariund here go under. BTW there are some guns that are unobtainable if they are not already in stock somewhere. Some examples I have seen are the Sig Sauer MK25 or Navy, Ruger Scout, Ruger SR556, M&P Shield.

 

[JBI812]

I assume the LGS's are selling what falls off the truck as it drives by the store. Some of the bigger volume stores are getting product but not nuch.

Ruger recently explained that they have doubled production on the SR1911 at a cost of 3.5 million dollars and they send all their inventory to independent distributors. The distributor salesman is giving product to his favorite customers. It could be the smaller stores may get a one or two but some may not get inventory for several years.

 

[brutalone]

Elmore's in Greenwood is well stocked.... but if they don't have it.... and you place an order... delivery date is "God knows when"...

 

[itsgreg]

guess it just depends on where you go and what they are trying to get I have a few friends that are dealers and they say they are not having any trouble getting product in. They are placing orders for people all the time. Was at the local dealer who is a friend of mine and his store is very well stocked.

 

[WebSnyper]

Plainfield Shooting Supply always seems well stocked for the most part (of course, I'll admit that I am usually looking at specific things there), and on those items that are moving fast they usually seem to get them before too much of a wait.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

According to finance reports the firearm manufactures aren't making any money.

Who is telling you this nonsense?

The firearm makers that are publicly traded have had record setting years since 2008.

So, who's buying all the guns and why is there a shortage? What's going on?

 

[netsecurity]

Where are the firearms in the INGO classifieds? They seem to have driedup this week, is it just me?

 

[JBI812]

I've shopped at least 12 stores in the Metropolitian area. Including Plainfield, Camby & Johnson County. Plus Lexington, Louisville, Jeffersonville/Clarksville, Mishawaki, Goshen areas and if you want to buy a handgun there are plenty to be found. But, If you want something specific "Forget it". SW, SIG, Beretta, Colt all have a catalog with a long list of things to sell. But try and find one. I don't understand why you would advertise merchandise for sale when you can't deliver in less than 6 - 8 months. Ruger SR1911 maybe be two years before supply catches up with demand.

 

[JBI812]

Who is telling you this nonsense?

The firearm makers that are publicly traded have had record setting years since 2008.

They may have had great years but they aren't sharing their profit with the owners of the company (stock holders). You get a better return investing in "Cracker Jacks".

 

[actaeon277]

Before you start talking about not sharing money with stockholders, remember they've had to fight lawsuits from various cities for a few years, while the anti's tried to bankrupt the manufacturers.

About not increasing production capability.
Manufacturers have plotted demand for decades. They know it fluctuates, especially before an election. They want to be careful before investing millions in new machinery, hiring and training a workforce.
If the demand were to continue long enough to make them think it's a trend, they will increase production capability. But it's not a light switch. It doesn't happen overnight. And, if demand decreases, then they are stuck with an investment that hangs around their neck.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Quick run for the hills!

 

[JBI812]

Ruger says they've doubled product and make around 600 SR1911 a week. That's about 2580 a months or 30,960 a year, if all goes well. That's about 620 per State for the next 12 months. I'm thinking that's about 6 per firearms store in Indiana/year. So, how long do you think it will take before supply meets demand. I'n glad I've got mine......

 

[M67]

I was told by a fellow that SIG requires an annual 15,000.00 cash in advance to become a distributor and they ship and bill against the open order when product is available. I've also heard that Bretta increased their distributor fee to 50 grand. Maybe thats why folks aren't buying their products.

Beretta are a bunch of a holes, that's why not many around here are direct dealers with them, and the ungodly amount you have to order from them per year. Some distributors do carry Beretta, but the end product in the shop is going to be a little more than going direct.

As for Sig, that's the first time I'v heard of the $15,000 cash in advance thing. All I'm aware of is the 15 gun minimum order to become a dealer but I think you still have to do a fair amount of orders with them per year.

I've shopped at least 12 stores in the Metropolitian area. Including Plainfield, Camby & Johnson County. Plus Lexington, Louisville, Jeffersonville/Clarksville, Mishawaki, Goshen areas and if you want to buy a handgun there are plenty to be found. But, If you want something specific "Forget it". SW, SIG, Beretta, Colt all have a catalog with a long list of things to sell. But try and find one. I don't understand why you would advertise merchandise for sale when you can't deliver in less than 6 - 8 months. Ruger SR1911 maybe be two years before supply catches up with demand.

Colt is a PITA too, try getting a hold of them in less than an hour. For some reason, everyone wants a Colt, so (IMO) got even more full of themselves and are just taking their sweet time in making things because they know there will always be a buyer.

As for advertising new products when they can't meet demand for the old, it's all about consumer behavior. Keep making new crap to help keep interest up. Let's face it, Americans get bored quickly. So if their not flashing something new every other month then the people may loose interest. Or, that's how they think it works anyway.


The Browning 1911 22 is a good example. The Buckmark has been a solid selling pistol ever since it first was produced, so what does Browning do? They decide to make the 1911 in the same plant as the Buckmark which puts a further hurt output.

So far, here is what I gathered for backorders:

LMT- 24 weeks
Ruger- HA!
Smith and Wesson- HA!
Colt- HA!
Browning- 4-6 months, maybe, depending on what you want. Their 12 gauge A-Bolt, 1911 22, and that abonination of a new A5 might be a year (well, maybe not the A-bolt, I've seen a newer one. Just one though)
Sig- 4-25 weeks, dependingon model
Beretta- Who knows they're on their own schedule
LWRC- 4-5 weeks
Spikes Tactical- 4-6 months
Benelli- If in stock, about 4 days, if not, who knows. Their M4 with the telescoping stock is apparently sold out for 2012
Kimber- 90 days to a year, maybe more for their new .380
Springfield- another HA!
Marlin- Who the hell knows
Remington, Bushmaster, Armalite- Not sure
Daniel Defense- If your order isn't placed yet, good luck unless someone back out of an order.
Mossberg- Not sure, but their goal for their AR is to have it available by Christmas

 

[JBI812]

Beretta are a bunch of a holes, that's why not many around here are direct dealers with them, and the ungodly amount you have to order from them per year. Some distributors do carry Beretta, but the end product in the shop is going to be a little more than going direct.

As for Sig, that's the first time I'v heard of the $15,000 cash in advance thing. All I'm aware of is the 15 gun minimum order to become a dealer but I think you still have to do a fair amount of orders with them per year.





Colt is a PITA too, try getting a hold of them in less than an hour. For some reason, everyone wants a Colt, so (IMO) got even more full of themselves and are just taking their sweet time in making things because they know there will always be a buyer.

As for advertising new products when they can't meet demand for the old, it's all about consumer behavior. Keep making new crap to help keep interest up. Let's face it, Americans get bored quickly. So if their not flashing something new every other month then the people may loose interest. Or, that's how they think it works anyway.


The Browning 1911 22 is a good example. The Buckmark has been a solid selling pistol ever since it first was produced, so what does Browning do? They decide to make the 1911 in the same plant as the Buckmark which puts a further hurt output.

So far, here is what I gathered for backorders:

LMT- 24 weeks
Ruger- HA!
Smith and Wesson- HA!
Colt- HA!
Browning- 4-6 months, maybe, depending on what you want. Their 12 gauge A-Bolt, 1911 22, and that abonination of a new A5 might be a year (well, maybe not the A-bolt, I've seen a newer one. Just one though)
Sig- 4-25 weeks, dependingon model
Beretta- Who knows they're on their own schedule
LWRC- 4-5 weeks
Spikes Tactical- 4-6 months
Benelli- If in stock, about 4 days, if not, who knows. Their M4 with the telescoping stock is apparently sold out for 2012
Kimber- 90 days to a year, maybe more for their new .380
Springfield- another HA!
Marlin- Who the hell knows
Remington, Bushmaster, Armalite- Not sure
Daniel Defense- If your order isn't placed yet, good luck unless someone back out of an order.
Mossberg- Not sure, but their goal for their AR is to have it available by Christmas

I've heard the up front money thing twice in the past couple years. If it were true then it would demand a huge sum of capitol to inventory a retail store. I don't know how you could afford to stay in business with that kind of deal. The minimum order thing is a different story. I could see how that would be true. Especially if you had slow credit history.

As far as new products. Our economy and our history as a nation seems based on "Planned Obsolence". Otherwise we would still be shooting muskets from the civil war eras. Business needs exciting and fresh products to sell. Just think. Remember when guys were wearing pink leisure suits. Damn glad that fad is over. New Carhart stuff is good.

All I can think of, is that, un-certainty and caution is stearing planning and production. So, folks don't want to be cought with huge amount of inventory should things go further south. Its great to work in an enviornment where demand exceeds supply.

But your response confirms my question. No one seems able to supply anything quickly. Thats interesting. I think I'll do some research on who's making firearms and do a D & B and see if there is an opportunity to make some money. But, I did a smaller scale thing several years ago (after election in 2008) and the boat had already left the shore. It seem to recall that SW & Ruger were the two companies getting a spike from the gun scare. And that wasn't very much compaired to what other companies were doing. So many others gun companies have merged with other compamies. Marlin is just one example of an expanding holdings.

I sold a big chunk of my collection and have cash burning a hole in my pocket. I'm just looking for something new and different to spent it on. And what ever it is .......... it aint's available yet.

 

[gregkl]

Elmore's in Greenwood is well stocked.... but if they don't have it.... and you place an order... delivery date is "God knows when"...

When I called Elmore's, they had no 1911's in the versions I am looking for and was not interested in ordering anything. Even though I said I don't mind waiting.

 

[gregkl]

Plainfield Shooting Supply always seems well stocked for the most part (of course, I'll admit that I am usually looking at specific things there), and on those items that are moving fast they usually seem to get them before too much of a wait.

Tried these guys too. Said they could put a SA 1911 on back order but did not know when they would be available.