Who loads for the 357 sig?

[AllenM]

My main purchase at the 1500 was everything I need to start loading for the 357 Sig.

I have spent several hours now and have finally come up with a system that got me past the 40lb bullet set back goal while using Montana gold 125gr Jacketed.

Just curious who else has worked this out and how. It was trickier than I expected it to be.

 

[XtremeVel]

My main purchase at the 1500 was everything I need to start loading for the 357 Sig.

I have spent several hours now and have finally come up with a system that got me past the 40lb bullet set back goal while using Montana gold 125gr Jacketed.

Just curious who else has worked this out and how. It was trickier than I expected it to be.

Have loaded for the short bottle neck a few years now... Much satisfaction in getting much more out of the cartridge than what you can usually buy...

I found getting a secure hold of the bullet due to such a small locating area is helped greatly by proper mouth tension on the bullet and by the crimp. I did (2) things to help these areas...

I Took the expander plug out of the Lee Die and lightly polished removing a good .0005. Being they are Lee die and the finish is a rough MACHINE finish, you won't dare clean up the machining marks. This also helped a bit by smoothing out the expanding process which I felt also helped making the powder charge even more consistant since I charge in same step with the Lee Pro Auto disk.

Second, the crimp die that comes with the Lee (3) die set was worthless ! Even though I felt between the mouth tension and crimp from this die that the tension on the bullet was plenty, I would get 3-5 out of every 100 that would not chamber fully into battery. This was due to this die putting DOWNWARD force on the neck while crimping, thus buckling the shoulder just enough to prevent chambering. Adding the Lee factory crimp die ( collet style) immediately eliminated this issue. It puts pressure from the sides and will give you more than enough crimp, but does add a 4th die to the process.

You probably already know, but running your cases through a .40 die prior to sizing them with the .357 die can save you from lubing them. it adds a additional step, but depending on your procedure, could possibly save time in long run.

 

[AllenM]

Just finished 4 different loads and it looks like a good day to Chrony

 

[XtremeVel]

Just finished 4 different loads and it looks like a good day to Chrony

Have fun ! I also will be going out here in a couple of hours... INGO members are having a shoot at Roush. I will be taking my pet load using a near max charge of Blue Dot... I have experimented with different powders and charges, but always seem to come back to this Blue Dot load in .357.

 

[AllenM]

I have not polished the expander yet but it is on my short list after I test the current loads.
I did buy a Lee factory crimp die however in my final setup I am not using it.

I tried several different things to get proper neck tension. I have a electronic postal scale that goes to 60lbs. Anyway I read that I needed a minimum of 40lbs resistance to keep the bullet from setting back during cycling.

I tried slight to heavy roll crimps, No roll crimp and just the factory taper crimp, no crimp and crimp with both and the best I could get repeatedly was about 35lbs.

Sooo long story short I know I need to clean them well and just abandoned the idea of running these like standard pistol cartridges and switched to my rifle method.
Then I took brake cleaner and cleaned the bullet and inside the case mouth which had been walnut tumbled and with a lite roll crimp hit 48 lbs before the bullet would collapse back in the case.

I went ahead and took out the .40 die since I had to clean them I might as well spray oil on them.

I oiled sized and ran the expander through about 150 pieces of brass. I use a thumblers tumbler with soap and water and stainless steel media to clean brass with so I ran them through there and since there was a light film of oil on the bullets I through in a bunch of bullets in the tumbler also.

Dried those out and tested them this morning. with a very light roll crimp, cant even really see it. I am now max out my scale at 60 lbs before the bullet collapses into the case and the all drop in my barrel like butter.

So with that out of the way I am real curious what kind of velocity I will be getting.
I am testing with Power pistol

 

[AllenM]

sounds like a fun get together

 

[XtremeVel]

I have not polished the expander yet but it is on my short list after I test the current loads.
I did buy a Lee factory crimp die however in my final setup I am not using it.

I tried several different things to get proper neck tension. I have a electronic postal scale that goes to 60lbs. Anyway I read that I needed a minimum of 40lbs resistance to keep the bullet from setting back during cycling.

I tried slight to heavy roll crimps, No roll crimp and just the factory taper crimp, no crimp and crimp with both and the best I could get repeatedly was about 35lbs.

Sooo long story short I know I need to clean them well and just abandoned the idea of running these like standard pistol cartridges and switched to my rifle method.
Then I took brake cleaner and cleaned the bullet and inside the case mouth which had been walnut tumbled and with a lite roll crimp hit 48 lbs before the bullet would collapse back in the case.

I went ahead and took out the .40 die since I had to clean them I might as well spray oil on them.

I oiled sized and ran the expander through about 150 pieces of brass. I use a thumblers tumbler with soap and water and stainless steel media to clean brass with so I ran them through there and since there was a light film of oil on the bullets I through in a bunch of bullets in the tumbler also.

Dried those out and tested them this morning. with a very light roll crimp, cant even really see it. I am now max out my scale at 60 lbs before the bullet collapses into the case and the all drop in my barrel like butter.

So with that out of the way I am real curious what kind of velocity I will be getting.
I am testing with Power pistol

Roll crimp ? I know the cartridge has a shoulder, but I still THINK it head spaces on the forward end of the case mouth. If you are using the crimp die from the Lee (3) die set, it will be a taper crimp, same as their factory crimp. As far as I know, Lee doesn't offer a roll crimp die in that caliber.

You should like Power Pistol. I tried that and that would probably be my second choice.

 

[AllenM]

Oh I thought the die that came in the set was a roll crimp... my bad but yes I am using the seating die to crimp with

 

[XtremeVel]

Oh I thought the die that came in the set was a roll crimp... my bad but yes I am using the seating die to crimp with[/QUOTE

Well, you might be right... I don't use that die and Lee does advertise that it is adjustable from taper to roll crimp...

That is the die that applies downward force on the case and I was getting a few cases to buckle just enough to prevent full lock up. Maybe my chamber is just a bit tighter and you wont see this issue...

 

[AllenM]

It is barley kissing the case so it doesnt distort anything probably is acting like a taper

 

[AllenM]

No my chamber is tighter j/k

 

[XtremeVel]

If it's not "rolling" the end into the bullet, but yet holds the bullet secure, you will be good to go !

Don't forget your ears... If that is a decent charge of power Pistol, it will be fun, but loud !

Be sure to post your velocities later... Curious what you get...

 

[XtremeVel]

No my chamber is tighter j/k

In this case, tighter might not be better....

 

[Aszerigan]

I'll chime in here and throw a few ideas out too.

The 357 SIG was a real problem for me until I found the right recipe. I run my loads on a Dillon 550, and finally bought a set of Redding dies after my Lee dies failed to set the shoulders back, over and over and over. It took me a case gauge and a lot of trouble shooting before I realized it was the dies, not me.

HS-6 is a good powder for 357 SIG, and I find that with a moderate mouth flare from a 9mm powder funnel, I can drop the bullets in, get enough neck tension while seating, and then taper crimp the casing on the final stage.

Get yourself a case gauge too - L.E. Wilson makes a good one. They're not cheap, but they will save you a few wasted trips to the range.

Good luck !

 

[03A3]

A Wilson case gauge is always a good thing to have.
No dealings with the 357 Sig, but from what I've seen of factory ammo prices I would reload for it too.

 

[AllenM]

Yea I will have to get a case gauge. Good info.

I just got back from shooting my first 60 loads.
I ran 4 different charge weights. I guess I should put a disclaimer here. these loads are safe in my gun. some of them may be over published data so start lower and work up.
I did not have any pressure signs period.

1911 4.25" barrel
125gr Montana Gold Hollow points.
1.140 OAL
Winchester Small pistol primers

These are minimum 10 round strings, some more

Starting load

8.9gr Power Pistol, Average velocity 1395

9.1gr Power Pistol Average velocity 1434

9.3grs Power Pistol Average velocity 1476

9.5grs Power pistol Average velocity 1470

I have seen Power pistol do this before where the speed levels off for a bit and then comes back up with enough powder.
My velocity goal was 1350 but since 1476 ran nice and relativity soft and gave me the best accuracy I am going to bump back 1/10th gr and settle on 9.2

Be somewhere above 1450

I wish I had taken some Winchester white box with me and chrono'd it as well.

My loads seem to have less recoil than the WWB but I can't imagine that the WWB target ammo is turning those velocities.

What a fun cartridge, I shot my last 12 rounds at MCF&G 50yrd gong and hit 12 out of 12 Oh and no malfunctions

 

[Rob377]

I had great luck using a Lyman M-die to expand the case mouth to just the bare minimum (.356 ID) needed to seat the bullet, along with a Lee Factory crimp die. Between those two dies, neck tension and bullet setback were non issues.

I had great results using longshot powder.

It is an awesome cartridge. I've got my eyes peeled for a P226 in 357 to replace my M&P357.


IIRC, WWB chrono'ed at ~1280 out of the M&P.

 

[AllenM]

Thanks for the wwb info. I really thought a lot about using longshot, that is one of my favorites. Care to share your data?

 

[Rob377]

Thanks for the wwb info. I really thought a lot about using longshot, that is one of my favorites. Care to share your data?

Usual disclaimers apply. No pressures signs at all even at 9.4 in my gun, yours may be different. Work up slowly, and follow proper procedures! No warranties express or implied with this data.

Bullet were Zero 125FP and winchester primers

Charge Avg. Velocity SD SD:AV ES
8.8 1344 16.22 1.21% 51
9 1385 18.15 1.31% 46
9.2 1372 45.37 3.31% 95
9.4 1409 35.68 2.53% 118

I used 9gr as my go-to uspsa load.

 

[AllenM]

I will work up with some longshot as well and see which I like more.
I use Longshot in 10mm and 40 with great success.