Why 40 Smith and Wesson

[led4thehed2]

About 8 to 10 years ago some friends of mine were turning legal age for purchase, and several bought 40s for their first handguns. In fact, only one of my friends bought a 9, and that gun is long gone. One bought an M&P, one bought a Walther P99, and more recently one bought a GLOCK 23.

The Walther was forfeited to the local police after a drunken negligent discharge, but as far as I know the other guys still have theirs. When I was looking at my first gun, my father and I agreed the 40 seemed to be the great compromise of between the high capacity 9 and the big ole 45. When I went in to purchase, I was encouraged to rent their GLOCK 19, and I loved it- so I bought it.

There does seem to be a decided trend away from the 40 over the last few years. NIB guns are being discounted, and old LE trade-ins are pretty common. Jenkins had IMPD GLOCK 22s for about $300 at one point!

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

About 8 to 10 years ago some friends of mine were turning legal age for purchase, and several bought 40s for their first handguns. In fact, only one of my friends bought a 9, and that gun is long gone. One bought an M&P, one bought a Walther P99, and more recently one bought a GLOCK 23.

The Walther was forfeited to the local police after a drunken negligent discharge, but as far as I know the other guys still have theirs. When I was looking at my first gun, my father and I agreed the 40 seemed to be the great compromise of between the high capacity 9 and the big ole 45. When I went in to purchase, I was encouraged to rent their GLOCK 19, and I loved it- so I bought it.

There does seem to be a decided trend away from the 40 over the last few years. NIB guns are being discounted, and old LE trade-ins are pretty common. Jenkins had IMPD GLOCK 22s for about $300 at one point!

I was in there last week, didn't see any. But really wasn't looking for one. Have my issue 22 and personal 23 I'm hanging onto.

 

[dtkw]

I have a Sig P226 in 9mm, a Dig P229 in 40, and a Les Baer Custom in 45ACP. I never miss the targets intended with all three.

 

[Sling10mm]

I traded a Glock 23 for a M&P9c. It wasn't that I didn't like the Glock or the 40, but I wanted something a little smaller for carry, and liked the idea of less recoil in the smaller package. I had a Glock 27 years ago that I actually shot well, but just didn't like the feel of that pistol in my hand. Having said all that, I have a XD(m) 40 full size that still has a place in the safe and still gets range time.

 

[88E30M50]

I picked up my first .40 years ago during one of the ammo shortages. Got tired of finding 9mm gone, and then .45 gone too, all the while there was plenty of .40 available to shoot. Turns out that I like the round more than I ever thought I would and have embraced it. Why are they cheaper now? As others have said, 9mm is the current favorite, so lots of .40 have been sitting in dealers stores for a while. It's getting hard to trade a .40 for a new gun now, as everybody wants 9mm, so that drives the price down too. In other words, the market is over saturated with .40 given the demand, so prices are dropping. Sooner or later, it might turn around once a couple of manufacturers distance themselves from the caliber. CZ is doing that with a bunch of their .40s discontinued. If the demand firms up again with fewer new guns on the market in .40, the price may recover.

Who knows though. Someday, it could be hot again if there's another ammo shortage and the .40 guys are the only ones left shooting commercial stuff.

 

[sheepdog697]

i think people are realizing that with advances in ammunition manufacturing, the gap between 9mm and 45ACP that 40 S&W once filled is slowly narrowing(if not completely gone). I had a 40 S&W glock, and i disliked the recoil more than a 45ACP. It is long gone. If you like the 40 S&W im sure you will be able to get some good deals here in the near future.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Have noticed that the 40 Smith and Wesson chambered hand guns are very inexpensive in comparison to the 9 mm and 45 acp handguns of the same make and model. What are the reasons behind the shift away from 40 s&w ? For me it is a bonus as I like the 40 s&w.

Because with modern bullets, the 9mm performs as well in people as the .40 does. Each has tiny differences, but they are basically a wash. 9mm is easier on the shooter and the gun, is generally cheaper, and once you are acclimated to it can be shot more accurately at a faster cadence.

There's also a lot of guns on the market that are .40 but were modified 9mm designs...and some didn't hold together real well or were unpleasant to shoot.

 

[Grelber]

and once you are acclimated to it can be shot more accurately at a faster cadence.

Might be a bit of a stretch.
Not sure where the accuracy data comes from, both calibers can be very accurate with a quality weapon & load. Loaded at matching power factor, some prefer the recoil impulse of a 40 with 165 grain bullets (for example, I like 180 and clays for soft 40's) to an equivalent 9 load. If you want more power than you can get with a 9 though there will be more recoil, agree that there is no free lunch.

 

[DaveM44]

In my opinion, it's mostly due to people tending to go with what the police and military get issued. The thought seems to be that something has to be the best if the police and military choose it, and not understanding that often these calibers and weapons get chosen for these officers and soldiers. 9mm is a perfectly fine caliber, but pretending it can do what other calibers can just because it has been worked on and tweaked and a few plus signs were stuck next to the "P", is just that, pretending. Know what though? I have a G19 on me right now, and I feel just fine. A solid copper choosing from the likes of Corbon or Underwood is nothing to chuckle at.

The sad part of the .40 being looked down upon is taking your .40 guns to the LGS and getting told you're getting paid less for it than if it had been a 9mm.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Might be a bit of a stretch.
Not sure where the accuracy data comes from, both calibers can be very accurate with a quality weapon & load. Loaded at matching power factor, some prefer the recoil impulse of a 40 with 165 grain bullets (for example, I like 180 and clays for soft 40's) to an equivalent 9 load. If you want more power than you can get with a 9 though there will be more recoil, agree that there is no free lunch.

If you're loading them to the same power, I would assume there's no functional difference. However, my background isn't competition and loading to a set power factor, and that's probably not what's driving broad trends in calibers in the market. Using factory ammo and factory self defense ammo, then it's easier to shoot 9mm more accurately at a given cadence. When I first transitioned to 9mm, I didn't see any reduction in split times, but I was used to a certain cadence based on how fast I could get back on the sights and see enough sight picture to make the hits I wanted. Now that I'm used to less movement of the front sight, I shoot faster without sacrificing accuracy.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Thanks for the heads up Peacekeeper, I always look at the display at the end of the gun case for whatever they have.
Last time I was in there it was Glock-22's at $315 and Glock-21's for $350.

 

[easy]

I walked into the .40 at an NRA dinner. Bought half of a playing card(2 of Clubs) from the boobie girl for $20.00. Presto S&W M&P 40 owner. Has maybe 200 rounds through it in eight years.

 

[edporch]

Why 40 S&W?
Because many pistols in that caliber allow me to swap in a .357 Sig barrel.

That said, as somebody who began first carrying a .357 magnum revolver, this talk about a .40 S&W having such a bad recoil baffles me.

 

[Smithkowitz]

My first handgun was an M&P 9 Full Size, 2nd was a compact 45 (1911). Everyone said 40's were way snappy don't waste your time on them; this was in 2007. I wanted a compact so I bought a M&P 9 Compact. Still, I the size of these firearms were a bit too large for my body type to conceal, especially in warm weather clothes. Eventually I bought a Kahr MK9 which I like, but still seemed a bit large. Then I began thinking about the capacity vs power issue and decided to by a 40, a compromise between the 9 and 45. First I bought an M&P 40 Compact, and oddly, I liked shooting it better than the M&P 9 Compact. It really didn't seem to be all that snappy as many had said. Just seemed like a different type of recoil than the 9 or 45. I was also just as accurate with it. So, I bought a Kahr MK40; possibly the smallest (not lightest) 40 you can buy in overall size. It is to this day, one of my favorite handguns. And as much as I find it hard to believe, overtime I take it out and do a comparison shoot against my larger 40 or 9, I am more accurate with the MK40. Capacity is low at 5, but you can use the larger Kahr magazines, that hold as much as 7 rounds. I typically carry a 5, 6 & 7 with me. When the M&P Shield 40 cam out, I ordered one of those. 3 years or so later I sold it, (this past summer) and I actually got $325 for it, from a gun shop on trade-in. They said it was worth more than a M&P Shield 9 (as it was not in high supply). So, depending on what you buy, it may or may not be a good deal. Many people frown upon ultra compact firearms (3" barrel models), I like them and shoot them well. They are the easiest to conceal in any weather, and can be holster t-shirt carried comfortably as well as ankle. Another thing I've noticed lately, 40 S&W ammo is almost the same price as 9mm at some places.

 

[88E30M50]

I had a similar experience with the Glock 23 and 19s. Bought a G23 and liked it a lot. Then I bought a G19, thinking that if I liked the 23, I'd love the 19. I could not shoot the 19 nearly as well as the 23 though, but thought that it was just a matter of getting used to it. So, I bought a second G19 and tried really hard to love it, but I always shot the G23 better. Sooner or later, I realized that I just didn't like shooting the G19s that much and sold them both. Still have, and still enjoy the G23 though.

 

[223 Gunner]

I have a Gen 4 Glock 23 and an HK VP40.
Both very solid weapons, accurate and fun to shoot.

 

[GrinderCB]

As many have said here, law enforcement is a force for sales in the gun business. The FBI recently changed from .40sw to 9mm as their sidearm caliber of choice. That leads to state and local departments following suit. Asking what the cops use is very common by civilians, especially those new to gun ownership. Right after the 2008 election when the Obama gun rush started there were two questions I heard at gun counters. One was, "I never bought one before. Is this a good gun?" and "Could I get one like what the cops use?" Political fears may drive overall gun sales, but what LE uses truly affects the specifics.

I owned several guns before Obama was elected but none had been a .40sw, no real reason why, just that up to that point I'd never hit on one I liked at the right time and the right price. I'd shot .40sw rentals several times before but only bought my CZ 75 Compact when a local dealer had it on sale. Since then I've practiced with it and it's my current nightstand gun. A bit heavy for concealed carry but I'm looking for the right gunbelt/holster combo to help with that.

As far as .40sw goes with quality, I get why cops favor "lighter recoil/greater mag capacity/better shot placement" and that's for them to decide. But as private citizens we also get to decide what's best for us.

 

[Kernelkrink]

Why are they cheaper? Demand is way down. The FBI declared the 9mm in some loadings just as good. As goes the FBI, so too does a majority of LE agencies. Look at the major online retailers, they have tons of LE trade in .40s, mainly Glocks. Many folks look to the Cops as to their ammo choices, they can afford to do the multi-thousand round testing and can select the "best" ammo without regard to cost.

9mm does have several advantages over the larger calibers. Most full size autos these days run 17-20 rd magazines in 9mm, 2-5 rounds over the most popular .40 models. In the micro-autos many folks use as their CCW piece, 9mm is much less in the recoil department. When was the last time you heard of a 9mm Glock KaBoom? Follow up shots are faster due to the lighter recoil. Ammo is definitely cheaper, at least in the practice types.

Is 9mm "just as good"? Barring psychological "stops" (where someone is capable of continuing aggression but stops due to pain or other factors besides physical incapacitation) where literally any bullet would have the same effect, to truly stop someone you have to either disconnect their brain from the rest of the body or cause enough skeletal/muscular damage to make it impossible to move your trigger finger/hold the gun or continue a physical assault. Except for hand cannons like the .500 S&W magnum and similar, all handgun calibers are poor fight stoppers. There is a reason the military issues rifles chambered in .223 and .308 instead of handgun caliber carbines.

So unless a solid hit to the upper spine or brain is achieved, you cannot guarantee someone will go down with a handgun wound. A person whose heart is completely stopped will still remain conscious and able to continue aggression for up to 15 seconds before the brain shuts down from lack of oxygen. Drugs, alcohol, even mental state can cause folks to ignore pain or dull it enough to continue fighting when wounded.

So what we need is a bullet that will penetrate deep enough to reach vital areas and expand to cause maximum damage. Essentially, if you take a human shaped target and draw circles around the brain and spine, major organs, etc. you wind up with the target areas that will produce a "stop" in most cases. The key is to hit these areas. Even if caliber X produces a slightly larger expanded bullet or wound track, all you are gaining over caliber Y is enlarging these circles by a tiny fraction. If caliber Y is easier to shoot, has faster follow up shots (easy to miss those little circles) and more of them, then yeah I would tend to say it was "better".

OTOH, there are some smokin' deals on .40 handguns these days. If one is in the market for one now is the time to buy! Eventually the prices have got to equalize at some point.

 

[Grelber]

At course in Illinois last year (part of their pain getting 2a rights in a liberal controlled state) , my brother in law was advised to drop a round in the naughty bits area in order to quickly stop a deadly threat.

They said there would be an immediate pain level that would stop the aggressor.

I have no idea if this is accurate.

 

[88E30M50]

Getting shot in my junk would sure get my attention...