Why IL resident can NOT bring handgun to IN range

[melensdad]

So you are of the opinion that a person without a license may transport a handgun to a hotel in Indiana? Please show me the IC that provides for transport of a firearm without a license, considering there is no purchase here. If I understand you correctly you are saying FOPA covers the transport part, and IC covers the hotel?

I cannot show you IC because according to IC the law is being violated. That is the reason that the FOPA was written and why it supersedes the IC. However as for this discussion, the FOPA covers the transport portion (presuming gun is unloaded, secured outside of passenger compartment, ditto ammo) by trumping IC and the IC covers possession inside the hotel room.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

BEAR IN MIND that if the ILLINOIS resident is "traveling to" a point in Indiana that is private property, such as a farm, and he "stays" on such private property while he is in Indiana, then he would 1) legally be able to transport the gun to such place under FEDERAL LAW, and he would 2) legally be able to shoot his handgun in Indiana while ON THAT PRIVATE PROPERTY since he is residing on that property (again under FEDERAL LAW and under INDIANA LAW).

So, using this logic, a NON-RESIDENT without a license can cross state lines transporting a handgun in order to take a course I am offering on PRIVATE property, but an Indiana RESIDENT without a license cannot bring their gun to the same course. This would not be the first time LAW & LOGIC didn't mix.

As I stated earlier I have sent an email to the attorney whose phone number is in my wallet in case of a gun/defense related situation.

 

[wolfman]

you must have a handgun permit to carry, hunt, or use at a dnr range a handgun..
if your state does not issue a carry permit you have to get an indiana non res permit..

Incorrect ,,,, even though there are a couple of exceptions, as a general rule, Indiana DOES NOT issue non res LTCH's.

Actually, YOU are the one who is incorrect.
The State does issue a NON-Resident LTCH. Try again...

So (Jeremy) are you saying that anyone and/or everyone that is not an Indiana resident can obtain a NON-Resident LTCH?

Not my understanding at all. IF you are not a resident you will not get an INDIANA LTCH unless you meet very specific criteria (you own a store in Indiana or work in an establishment in Indiana-presumably that requires or allows you to carry a gun) and even then I suspect that they don't issue many of those.

My point exactly, thanks melensdad.

 

[melensdad]

So, using this logic, a NON-RESIDENT without a license can cross state lines transporting a handgun in order to take a course I am offering on PRIVATE property, but an Indiana RESIDENT without a license cannot bring their gun to the same course. This would not be the first time LAW & LOGIC didn't mix.

As I stated earlier I have sent an email to the attorney whose phone number is in my wallet in case of a gun/defense related situation.

No sir. You completely misunderstood. The NON-resident who has NO license from any state is not staying on your private land and using it as his temporary residence is he? If not then technically it is NOT legal. However the practical solution is for YOU to claim possession of the gun and YOU to lend him the gun. But to be legal he must be staying on the property so it qualifies as his temporary dwelling.

 

[slars1327]

It's Mayor Daley's henchman that keep Illinois from passing a CCW

 

[IndyGunSafety]

DNR Changes sign after email from IGS!

After reading this thread I did some investigating and wrote a email to the manager at Winamac. THEY CHANGED THE SIGN BASED ON OUR EMAIL! You see! These people can be reasonable. I sent my email Friday night. I also copied it to My Man Mitch. Here is their propmpt response followed by my email and the wording of the new sign:

Mr. DeWitt,

Thank you for your e-mail. First, I want to assure you that the sign you refer to was not intended to prohibit use of our range by Illinois residents. It was only meant to inform them that according to the determination made by the Indiana State Police, that the Illinois firearm permitting system was not recognized as a valid handgun permit for use in Indiana. I do see your point that the sign makes no reference to Illinois residents permitted by a non-resident handgun permit that is recognized by Indiana. I have changed the wording of this sign to reflect that point (see attached).

I am sorry if an employee at this property gave you the impression that we were trying to restrict usage of our range to Illinois residents because their laws won't allow Indiana residents the same opportunity in Illinois. This is certainly not our policy, and I will make sure all of our employees are informed of the reason for the sign.

Again, I want to stress that the sign was not meant to prohibit use, only to inform Illinois residents how the Indiana State Police has interpreted the law regarding the Illinois firearm permit system. I felt that it was important to inform Illinois residents, since in the past IDNR Conservation Officers had accepted the FOID card for handgun hunting and shooting in Indiana. This has recently changed due to the ISP interpretation.

Thank you for alerting me to the mistaken wording of our sign. Please feel free to contact me if you have additional questions or concerns regarding the use of our range or any of the facilities at Winamac Fish & Wildlife Area.

Sincerely,

Tom Despot, Property Mgr. Biologist
Winamac FWA
1530 W. 500 N.
Winamac, IN 46996
574-946-4422

______________________________________________________
Mr. Despot:

Recently I was made aware of a sign at the Winamac shooting range that stated in effect that residents of the State of Illinois could not utilize the range with a handgun they transported with them from Illinois.

Frankly I am dismayed at this sign because nothing in the Indiana Code prohibits such transport or use by a non-resident. Furthermore, Indiana accepts handgun carry and transport licenses from all states that issue them. While Illinois does not issue such a license, states like Florida and Utah do issue licenses to non-residents. In fact I get dozens of students per year that cross the state line to take our safety courses for the sole purpose of getting a non-resident Florida License. Persons traveling to Winamac range from Illinois certainly may be licensed and therefore in compliance with Indiana law.

Since there is no legal standing for such a sign we are left with policy. After speaking with one of your employees I was left with this impression as I was told: “If we can’t carry over there, they can’t carry over here!” I cannot believe for a minute that if I contacted Governor Daniels' office that I would be told such a policy exists.

People from Illinois engage in untold legal commerce when they enter our state for recreation and/or training. They rent hotel rooms, and buy things like ammunition, gasoline, food, etc. The blanket prohibition of their use of Indiana shooting ranges hurts Indiana business. I would suggest a re-wording of the sign to reflect the fact that anyone with a valid license to carry from any state is welcome. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Randall DeWitt, President & CEO
Indy Gun Safety, Inc.

ATTENTION ILLINOIS RESIDENTS​

According to the Indiana State Police, it is not lawful for Illinois residents with only a FOID card to bring handguns to Indiana for the purpose of hunting or target practice. FOID cards are not recognized as valid handgun permits in Indiana.

Illinois residents who hold a valid non-resident handgun permit from another state, such as Florida or Utah, may legally hunt with and shoot handguns in Indiana.

This only applies to handguns. Rifles & shotguns are legal firearms for Illinois residents to hunt with and shoot in Indiana.

For further information, contact the Indiana State Police at 317-233-5054.

 

[SirRealism]

After reading this thread I did some investigating and wrote a email to the manager at Winamac. THEY CHANGED THE SIGN BASED ON OUR EMAIL! You see! These people can be reasonable. I sent my email Friday night. I also copied it to My Man Mitch. Here is their propmpt response followed by my email and the wording of the new sign:

Great job IGS!! (Who'da thunk that a guy named "Despot" would be so reasonable. )

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Great job IGS!! (Who'da thunk that a guy named "Despot" would be so reasonable. )

Lol! I didn't think of that.

 

[kludge]

Nice letter. Rep'd!

 

[jedi]

Nice! Will you be attending the NWI MEET & GREET btw?
Your only .5 hour further than most of us from NWI. =)

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...t_sunday_14_nov_2010_-_last_1_for_2010_a.html

 

[jedi]

Got me thinking that letter from DNR seems real nice and they stress they were not trying to not have more "guest" use the range. This is just me thinking out loud but could it be that they are so nice and all because of the NWI state ranges this one might be the one with the lowest attendance? and they might fear that a drop in attendance may mean the state cuts them?

Not sure in any case they are very friendly and nice when we have gone.

 

[flagtag]

I have a Pennsylvania LTC that is good in IN. (And about 18 other states. But, I only got it because my daughter lives in IN and I may want to go shooting with her - or at least carry there when I visit.)

ILLINOIS SUCKS!! (But, we are getting closer to LTC - step by step.)
I'm hoping that tomorrow will be the start of IL becoming a "free state" also.

 

[jcdenton]

Just in case somebody finds this old thread through a Google search, as I did on July 3, I want to make sure there's something here to indicate that Indiana revised the law effective July 1, such that IL residents can now legally shoot at IN ranges. Check out this thread for info.

I've been to the Kingsbury range a couple of times (with my Utah CCW) and thoroughly enjoyed my time away from Crook County. Thanks for the hospitality.

 

[DThurston]

Just in case somebody finds this old thread through a Google search, as I did on July 3, I want to make sure there's something here to indicate that Indiana revised the law effective July 1, such that IL residents can now legally shoot at IN ranges. Check out this thread for info.

I've been to the Kingsbury range a couple of times (with my Utah CCW) and thoroughly enjoyed my time away from Crook County. Thanks for the hospitality.

Quite possibly the most effective use of the NecroPost that i've ever seen.

Well done and welcome to the board!

 

[Jake46184]

If you are an IL resident and work in IN, you can get an IN LTCH.

I haven't looked through the entire thread to see if someone else has already corrected this but you'll want to research the requirements for obtaining an Indiana permit.

 

[ATM]

If you are an IL resident and work in IN, you can get an IN LTCH.

I haven't looked through the entire thread to see if someone else has already corrected this but you'll want to research the requirements for obtaining an Indiana permit.

It's right there in the code:

IC 35-47-2-3

Sec. 3. (a) A person desiring a license to carry a handgun shall apply:
...
(3) if the applicant is a resident of another state and has a regular place of business or employment in Indiana, to the sheriff of the county in which the applicant has a regular place of business or employment.

IC 35-47-2-4

...(f) The superintendent may not issue a lifetime qualified license or a lifetime unlimited license to a person who is a resident of another state. The superintendent may issue a four (4) year qualified license or a four (4) year unlimited license to a person who is a resident of another state and who has a regular place of business or employment in Indiana as described in section 3(a)(3) of this chapter.

 

[Jake46184]

It's right there in the code:

IC 35-47-2-3


IC 35-47-2-4

Yes, it is. Read it carefully and then read the original quote.

 

[flagtag]

IN does recognize some out-of-state carry licenses, tho.
I just wonder if that would include transport to shooting ranges.

 

[in625shooter]

IN does recognize some out-of-state carry licenses, tho.
I just wonder if that would include transport to shooting ranges.

Indiana recognizes all other states however, before the new law took effect during any given local IPSC club match there are/were folks from say IL, OH, MI, or KY participating with no major incidents. During the state championship there were even some Canadians shooting OMG!

But as far as simply transporting unloaded, isn't alll that a moot point now?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Indiana recognizes all other states however, before the new law took effect during any given local IPSC club match there are/were folks from say IL, OH, MI, or KY participating with no major incidents. During the state championship there were even some Canadians shooting OMG!

But as far as simply transporting unloaded, isn't alll that a moot point now?

The transporting unloaded was always moot for anyone other than an IN citizen.

I think what you run into with others shooting at ranges in IN is that those ranges are private property and the state of IN can't tell you you can't carry on private property.