Why is talking about long-range archery so frowned upon?

[EPD1102]

It seems to me that when I talk with other hunters about long-range archery hunting, they automatically assume that I am careless or unethical. When I used to bowhunt frequently, I practiced regularly out to 110 yards and felt very comfortable shooting a deer at 70 yards. At that time, I could put at least 4 out of 5 arrows into a paper plate at 110 yards and I competed regularly in 3-D shoots.
Years ago, I shot a doe at 72 yards. She ran about 25 yards and was down. I knew the distance and knew my abilities. If I mention something like this to most hunters, they say I was reckless, unsportsmanlike, or whatever. I don't agree since I knew my abilities and I was within them. I've known many archers who shouldn't take a 30-yard shot on a deer but I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing long-range bowhunting if you can do it.
I bring all of this up because I'm getting older and I'm considering a crossbow. When I start talking about anything past 50 yards, people look at me like I'm planning to just drive thru the woods on a 4-wheeler randomly shooting at animals. What are your opinions on long-range shooting (bow, crossbow, slug gun, etc.) if you put in the time to make sure your skills and equipment are up to it?

 

[indyjoe]

I've seen rifle shooters that shouldn't take a 70 yard shot.

It is all about being within your ability to know that every shot you release will we a clean shot. If almost 100 yards is that for you, I see no problem.

 

[TaunTaun]

I don't find anything wrong with long range pistol shooting (if you can hit your target)
I don't find anything wrong with long range rifle shooting (if you can hit your target)
I don't find anything wrong with long range shotgun shooting (if you can hit your target)(Slugs that is, since .00 tends to spread a bit, etc, etc)
I don't find anything wrong with Short range or long range archery (if you can hit your target)
I don't find anything wrong with chucking a rock at long range (if you can hit your target)
I don't find anything wrong with shooting the basketball from half court or from the other basket (if you can hit your target)

 

[SEIndSAM]

I think it's because most people base their opinions on their abilities and the level of those around them. If 50 yards is the limit of their abilities, then they think it's foolish for you to attempt 100.

Just like driving on the interstate. They may be going 80, but if somebody passes them going 90 the guy is a moron or speed demon.

 

[rockhopper46038]

No beef here, it that is within your abilities. Some bow hunters I knew in Upper Michigan were a bit "mystical" about bow hunting, and expressed their purported love of the stalk and getting close to the deer before shooting; but frankly, every one of them used a tree stand, sugar beets and a deer lick, so...

 

[Harry2110]

I think it's because most people base their opinions on their abilities and the level of those around them. If 50 yards is the limit of their abilities, then they think it's foolish for you to attempt 100.

Just like driving on the interstate. They may be going 80, but if somebody passes them going 90 the guy is a moron or speed demon.

Actually thats illegal and wrong but I guess going 80 is too.

I dont see an issue as long as you know whats behind the target so if you over shoot.

Ive seen the same with cycling people think im nuts that Ill bike almost 40 miles to go shopping which for me is really no big deal.

 

[Ryninger]

Not something I would recommend. That being said, if that's what a guy practiced and highly proficient at then I won't look down on him or criticize him for it. Most people aren't shooting rigs that can give them a sight picture out that far.

I don't get to shoot year round so when I hunt I try to keep my shots on deer to 40yd or less... Adrenaline can do funny things if you aren't ready for it!

 

[Willie]

The longer the arrow is in the air the more likely bad things can happen..

40 is my max at an unalert, stationary and good angled deer.

 

[trapperDave]

because deer arent targets, their living creatures and rarely stand still very long. Because that one out of five arrows you shoot goes into their guts. because we owe it them to take ethical shots. because archery is not about how far away you can hit something, its about how close you can get undetected.

I love long range shooting, but its not for hunting. If you feel the need to reach out n touch one, or are incapable of getting within a reasonable range, use a gun.

 

[halfmileharry]

I've killed deer at long ranges and know my limitations in any given situation.
I'm comfortable at long range but prefer close shots that reinforce my pride in being able to hunt in close proximity to the game. Nothing like being able to blend in and make quick close in kill shots.
I see nothing wrong with the long range shots IF IF IF the circumstances are right.

 

[Hookeye]

It's not about distance, it's about time of flight.

Arrows at distance have substantial time of flight, and deer can move during it.

Having said that, longer D is great practice.

 

[EPD1102]

I have to say that I'm impressed with the open-mindedness so far. I was really expecting to get flamed for bringing the subject up. I agree with most or all of what has been posted.
Now, who else is brave enough to say that they practice enough to plan for longer-range shots than the average hunters? I know there are people who do it without being prepared for it but does anyone practice and work enough to say they feel comfortable and humane taking 70-yard or longer bow shots? I have several buddies who bowhunt pronghorn and other western game at longer distances than I'd feel comfortable.

 

[indyjoe]

Never run the number before, as I haven't shot much bow at all.

100 yards with a 300+ fps arrow is about a second flight time. Sound of the bow is about 1/4 second. So the deer has a 3/4 of a second reaction time to ruin your perfect aim.

50 yards is 1/2 of a second flight time and 1/8 of a second sound time, or 3/8 of a second reaction time.

25 yards is 1/4 of a second flight time and 1/16 of a second sound time. 3/16 of a second to react.

These numbers only get worse with more realistic high 200 fps bow speeds. You are fighting 1126 fps (speed of sound) so no arrow is going to beat the sound to the deer.

I've seen video of a deer ducking under a shot (or being poorly shot because of the sound ducking.) This is usually a deer that is already alerted. The only way you should even consider a 50+ yard shot is on a totally relaxed deer.

I've seen arguments to reaction time of a deer being around 1/10th of a second. So it can already be dropping in a 25 yard shot. It would have completely jumped over the arrow by a 50 yard shot. Or it is sliding forward to jump and gets gut shot, as others have mentioned.

 

[trapperDave]

And an arrow starts shedding speed immediately upon release,quickly

 

[tyrajam]

I've only met one man who could shoot like that. We were in MO at a deer camp shooting at a target when Glenn paced back 100 yards, turned, and fired into the bullseye. First shot. I also saw him hit 12 balloons in a row at 100 yards. Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself. If you put in the hundreds of hours of practice to do it, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. An alert animal can jump the string at 40 yards, so obviously the situation must be perfect. I'm sure a lot of the "expert hunters" calling you out can't get a decent group at 30 yards, but everyone needs to know their capabilities and operate within them. I doubt 1 out of 100 who claim to be long range experts can back it up in real life, but if you put the hours in at the range, I would care less what everyone has to say who only puts their hours in at the keyboard.

 

[UncleNorby]

The ability to hit the target at "long range" has little to do with whether shooting game at long range is ethical.

It has nothing to do with the speed of sound, or the deer's reaction time.

Flight time is what matters. An arrow moving at 250 fps average (and that's a HIGH average over 100 yds) takes 1.2 seconds to get to the deer 100 yds away. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't know what even a stationary, calm deer will do in the next 1.2 seconds. It may step forward, step back, turn, whatever.

If a guy can hit his mark at 100 yds every time, and shoots at a deer at 100 yds, I'd say that the odds the deer will have moved by the time the arrow gets there is about 50/50. Too risky (unethical) for me. Some will agree, some won't.

 

[indyjoe]

It has nothing to do with the speed of sound, or the deer's reaction time.

There are two factors. One is just the deer moving. That can happen in 1.2 seconds, as you say. However, string jump is the deer reacting to the arrow shooting sound.

I agree 100% with you though, that I can't see a 100 yard shot being an ethical shot, after looking at all the factors.

 

[Hookeye]

A deer at distance may not hear any sounds to alarm it, offering a relaxed target. That could be of benefit.

But that doesn't mean it won't hear something else and move during the arrow's flight, or have a fly bite its arse, or see a nice bunch of grass a step over.

Too many variables with longer D, one biggie I think is wind.

Seen it catch well executed shots and have arrows hit off the mark.

Mechs with small fletching on smaller D shafts should lessen the effects of wind, but then there may be some negative stuff.

Loss of V at D, light arrows with mechs.........significant penetration loss, add that to a hit that is off the mark as well.........too much to go wrong in taking long D shots IMHO.

We haven't even talked about 3D/backyard practice/performance and how things differ when you're sleep deprived, drove 2hrs one way to your hunting spot, then battling temp/weather before taking a shot.

Binos, umbrellas, folding stools, taking 3 minutes to shoot the foam Bambi, after turning the peep 3 times and letting down twice..............3D nowadays
is more like friggin' golf

 

[Hookeye]

If one can take game cleanly at long D repeatedly, fine. I just hope they understand that firing at 5 animals and killing 4, missing one completely.............is still crap.

IMHO a miss is a wound (usually) only to a higher level of screwup.

Question: Do people dig up their own archived posts and add what they have learned to be different later?

 

[patience0830]

I think it's because most people base their opinions on their abilities and the level of those around them. If 50 yards is the limit of their abilities, then they think it's foolish for you to attempt 100.

Just like driving on the interstate. They may be going 80, but if somebody passes them going 90 the guy is a moron or speed demon.

Sometimes it's not all about your abilities. The time it takes an arrow to fly 100 yds is easily time for a grazing deer to take 2 steps and completely screw up your sight picture. As well as the sound of the shot travelling faster than the arrow. I can see 50-60 yds hunting antelope when you just can't get any closer. With a fast bow and practice I'd say it's borderline ethical. 40 is as far as I'll shoot on deer. I've seen 'em swap ends at the shot and get shot in the wrong side from where I was aiming. 70 IMO is too far.